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USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

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Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#251

Post by Whinner »

ativzzz wrote: post #157
echelon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the university that started it all. They've had the program for about a decade now, and they do a ridiculously good job. [1] It's a rigorous degree, they only admit a limited number of students (so your application has to be reasonable), and it's completely affordable. It's also indistinguishable from their on-campus MS in CS. It doesn't say you took it "online" after you graduate. Georgia Tech is a pretty ou…

> It's also indistinguishable from their on-campus MS in CS This isn't exactly true. Only a fraction of all classes are available for the online program. The computational perception & robotics specialization for instance has a very limited selection of classes available. Plus, you don't get the benefit of in-person networking with your peers and professors, but that's just the price of being remote.

There is no distinction on the diploma

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#252

Post by joconde »

908B64B197 wrote: post #192
joconde wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems that all schools added a "data science" specialization a few years ago, but of course they can't suddenly become good at it if they haven't done it before. My master in a no-name French tech school was mostly a software development curriculum, with some DL and scikit-learn courses tacked on. That was for the paper, the actual skills came on the job and online.

France has great engineering schools that are very math focused. Anyone with a French engineering diploma I would consider for a data science position.

I'm glad we have that reputation. :)

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#253

Post by clairity »

romwell wrote: post #228
clairity wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while the parent poster indeed made an unsubstantiated assertion, it's not that hard to understand the perverseness of giving money to already well-off people. i personally think we should make federal loans highly progressive, both in amount and interest rate, and make them dischargeable via ordinary bankruptcy proceedings (also, revert the bankruptcy-tightening laws that were passed in the mid-oughts). that would b…

I agree with what you say. The idea for total loan forgiveness is that for a reasonable progressive scheme, the difference between that and total forgiveness may be marginal. We have plenty examples of how drug-testing for government benefits ends up costing more than simply giving those benefits to all who qualify even if they are drug users . Same applies here. It'd be interesting to see the actual numbers. But sur…

yah, immunity from bankruptcy is the original sin of student loans. it’s literally what drove hyperinflation in higher ed.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#254

Post by 908B64B197 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #230
908B64B197 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This translates into paying 300k to feel prestigious. At dinner parties she gets to tell everyone about how she's a USC grad. With an online degree? Why would anyone brag about that?

With a USC degree? Why would anyone brag about that? Snobbery is fractal. People who went to elite schools look down on places that are very good, like USC.

USC is a great university.

It's bragging to have graduated from what looks like an obvious cash cow program that I'm skeptical of. All online, no cap on enrollment and full price. Should raise red flags.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#255

Post by cercatrova »

voakbasda wrote: post #250
david38 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few things are black and white. I absolutely believe in bankruptcy. I also believe the government can fund state schools and community colleges in such a way as to improve access without building more palaces. Just by improving the rigor of community colleges students can save massive amounts of money by paying $2k/y instead of $30k and live at home instead of $15k for housing. This cuts the cost basically in half.

You think I’d let my kids live with me for less than $200/month?

Yes? I never get why parents would charge their own kids rent. Not how you'd build generational wealth.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#256

Post by BizarroLand »

dagw wrote: post #248
MandieD wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve spent the past decade in the IT department of a really big German company Americans outside of the auto industry have probably never heard of, and I have yet to meet a German colleague who went to a private university, even up through our CEO. The very concept of student loans is mind-boggling for them.

The very concept of student loans is mind-boggling for them. I only know how it works in Norway, Sweden and Denmark, but students loans are super common there. Even though tuition is free you still have food, rent, books and other living expenses that all have to be paid for. How do most German students pay those costs?

I feel like family is more willing to assist with basic monthly living expenses than covering a $40k/semester tuition.

It's a lot easier to stomach covering a grand a month (shared housing, student works for spending money) by comparison.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#257

Post by tharkun__ »

dagw wrote: post #248
MandieD wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve spent the past decade in the IT department of a really big German company Americans outside of the auto industry have probably never heard of, and I have yet to meet a German colleague who went to a private university, even up through our CEO. The very concept of student loans is mind-boggling for them.

The very concept of student loans is mind-boggling for them. I only know how it works in Norway, Sweden and Denmark, but students loans are super common there. Even though tuition is free you still have food, rent, books and other living expenses that all have to be paid for. How do most German students pay those costs?

That is the same in Germany. There's something called the "BAföG" which is a student loan.

"Bundesausbildungsförderungsgesetz" which is just the name of the law but shortened to "BAföG" to refer to the loan itself. You "apply for BAföG".

However this is a loan directly from the government and its meant to pay for housing and food and such. If you get it you also get priority in student housing for example. Of course there is still not enough student housing in most universities and that means if you don't get BAföG you have to sort out paying for housing yourself and getting it on the open market and even if you do get BAföG you might still need to. So in most university cities there's also a lot of cheaper housing geared towards students and living together ("Wohngemeinschaft").

There's an eternal debate over how much BAföG is enough and who should get how much. It's tied to your parents' income basically (unless you worked before, which basically would mostly apply to people that did an "Ausbildung" i.e. were in the vocational system before and have had their own income but now want to go to university.

You have a certain period after leaving university to pay it back and if you pay it back in one shot (or maybe a few larger payments IIRC) then you have to pay back less.

    In 2012, 24% of all students in Germany received financial support via BAföG
Also, because there's not the whole "everyone wants to go to Harvard" going on its much more likely that you can live at home and still go to university. Many students would rather go work on the side and move out though I would venture.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#258

Post by romwell »

clairity wrote: post #253
romwell wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you say. The idea for total loan forgiveness is that for a reasonable progressive scheme, the difference between that and total forgiveness may be marginal. We have plenty examples of how drug-testing for government benefits ends up costing more than simply giving those benefits to all who qualify even if they are drug users . Same applies here. It'd be interesting to see the actual numbers. But sur…

yah, immunity from bankruptcy is the original sin of student loans. it’s literally what drove hyperinflation in higher ed.

I just like how it was passed in 1976 by the Nixon administration just as the proportion of Black students in universities was exploding (from 1960 and 1975, Black enrollment in higher education increased at a rate 3.5x of total enrollment growth; the legislation was introduced in 1975), and soon after, the number of Black students enrolled started dropping[1].

The proportion stayed low for about 20 years.

The "original sin" in 1976 was just one of many acts of legislation that were "compensating" for the Civil Rights reforms by cutting down the funding available to Black students.

It's amazing how little one has to peel in all things that suck in the US to find racism behind it. And now all of us are screwed.

[1]https://journals.iupui.edu/index.php/muj/article/download/20...

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#259

Post by JimTheMan »

999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

I think it shouldn't be objectionable to protect the public from decisions so bad, they might as well be scams.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#260

Post by clairity »

romwell wrote: post #258
clairity wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yah, immunity from bankruptcy is the original sin of student loans. it’s literally what drove hyperinflation in higher ed.

I just like how it was passed in 1976 by the Nixon administration just as the proportion of Black students in universities was exploding (from 1960 and 1975, Black enrollment in higher education increased at a rate 3.5x of total enrollment growth; the legislation was introduced in 1975), and soon after, the number of Black students enrolled started dropping [1]. The proportion stayed low for about 20 years. The "orig…

interesting, i didn't know about the racial angle, but it's thoroughly unsurprising to hear.
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