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“This project will only take 2 hours”

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141–150 of 279 posts

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like there may be a niche for some kind of industry standard automated logging system. Nothing complicated - shouldn't take too long.

Are you joking? Should candidates install spyware?

Seems obviously a joke based on the project from the article

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious - why would you use python if you don't know it?

I did a teamtreehouse or codeacademy course on Python maybe 6 or 7 years ago, but that was all - not even a single project. Mainly my programming experience existed because when I was a teenager I would create scripts for ultima online using EUO [0] and a few times Simba[1]. Also I managed an ecommerce operation for a few years, so I dealt with coders and eventually code. Actually, I started this project in VBA after…

Fair enough, it sounded a bit like you learned python specifically for this project.

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely remember a rant some famous Linux developer went on about how setting up printing in Linux requires a dozen parameters, half of which are arcane nonsense that the printer manufacturer themselves probably doesn't know how to set up correctly. Meanwhile, on an Apple or Windows computer it can be literally just plug and print. The difference is that hiding those arcane input parameters takes work , and a lot o…

I have not experience this fool-proof plug and play on windows or mac os. I just last year replaced a printer because it wasn't working with my wife's Macbook Pro, it worked one day and just dropped of the face of the earth the next (was able to print over USB from my linux laptop still). The printers were I work constantly have issues working with the windows PCs. Moral of the story, printers are a necessary evil an…

Was it a HP printer?

HP last year managed to accidentally revoke their macOS code signing certificate. I'm not sure how much software was affected, but as far as I know all HP software for Mac, including printer drivers, was broken (CRLs are updated automatically even if you have automatic software update disabled)

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The programming parts of this would take 2-4 hours This is, literally, the error that the entire article works on dispelling. Anyone can write a rough command line tool that monitors the clipboard and prints to stdout. Writing a usable GUI application is a lot more work. That’s not project management, that’s coding work. The ratio of project management work to coding isn’t 10:1 or even 100:1 like you’re suggesting.

Honestly, I'm a bit rusty but I feel like I could've done this project in C# with WinForms in a bit over 2 hours. Not all the advanced features asked for, but the minimal viable product. It's a shame that Microsoft is shifting away from the old, reliable WinForms for their new UWP system because making a quick and dirty implementation of many or these requirements would actually take very little time for many moderat…

> VB6, despite its stupid programming language, is still the golden standard for a GUI application design

I think the reason is that many programmers have an urge to do things in a stupidly hard and complex way to look competent.

Real programmers do not use GUI drag and drop design tools.

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#145
I’d point out this isn’t a problem with estimation per se but with requirement gathering. The students didn’t press him for more specific requirements before offering an estimate. The real challenge though comes when the customer doesn’t know their requirements. They legitimately think they “just want a simple app to record urls”, but actually want all the other things listed. The thing that sets good developers apart is being able to tease out those requirements without being a jerk or making legitimately simple requests overly complicated, then deliver.

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#146

I've gone down this rabbitole before, and yes, there are things that take two hours, and there are things that take a lot more. The problem is the scope - ie. are you trying to do what you said you'll do (miniature software to log urls), or are you adding 100s of requirements to the scope (gui, filters, privacy,...). We had a bunch of .xml files containing some data, and someone wanted a .csv file... sure, an hour ma…

I vaguely remember a rant some famous Linux developer went on about how setting up printing in Linux requires a dozen parameters, half of which are arcane nonsense that the printer manufacturer themselves probably doesn't know how to set up correctly. Meanwhile, on an Apple or Windows computer it can be literally just plug and print. The difference is that hiding those arcane input parameters takes work , and a lot o…

Early on as a dev, I made the mistake of doing exactly what I was asked. Basically I learned that user control was better than automation in some cases. I had to write a script to select batches of files from a larger number for translation/annotation with certain proportions of various characteristics. There was some amount of self balancing involved, and I wrote a cli program that did this well. I took a process that previously took days (often communication lag) dozens of times per year and brought it down to milliseconds.

The problem was that the humans involved didn't really want what they asked for. They wanted control. They wanted to select a batch with certain characteristics, then another batch with others. They wanted to pass a list of files that must be included, a list that must not. They wanted audit functionality, they wanted multi-step selection, to mark files for auditing, translation, and different annotations types, to select a batch from one annotations type for another.

At the end of the day, this ever evolving script worked out very well and took away the need for a programmer doing complex sql and filesystem queries. There was still a human involved, but that was because the human wanted to be involved. The process taught me about users wanting something other than what they ask for, scope creep, and also showed me the value that could be generated via a fairly simple script created in collaboration with the user.

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not experience this fool-proof plug and play on windows or mac os. I just last year replaced a printer because it wasn't working with my wife's Macbook Pro, it worked one day and just dropped of the face of the earth the next (was able to print over USB from my linux laptop still). The printers were I work constantly have issues working with the windows PCs. Moral of the story, printers are a necessary evil an…

Was it a HP printer? HP last year managed to accidentally revoke their macOS code signing certificate. I'm not sure how much software was affected, but as far as I know all HP software for Mac, including printer drivers, was broken (CRLs are updated automatically even if you have automatic software update disabled)

Nah, it was a Brother printer, I replace it with a cheap HP printer. The Wireless on that one stopped working, I've just given up and my wife uses the cable to print. Well luckily the HP is still playing nice over a USB cable.

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#149
I have been working on a side project that allows saving and sharing bookmarks with a simple like / dislike / comment system. It looks very simple, and is essentially a CRUD app. It's rewriting a similar project that had.

That turned out to have taken over a hundred hours of my time, and still counting. I started in June, expecting to finish by August. It's November now and I'm still at only 80%. There are just too many details that can't be predicted before starting to work on the specific part.

This happens at work too - "can you finish that feature now and release that in the next 15 mins or so"? Sorry, but I've only been a maintainer of this massive codebase for a few months, and haven't even touched that part of the program...? And yeah, I have other pressing work that I'm focusing on, so which one should wait?

Re: “This project will only take 2 hours”

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a teamtreehouse or codeacademy course on Python maybe 6 or 7 years ago, but that was all - not even a single project. Mainly my programming experience existed because when I was a teenager I would create scripts for ultima online using EUO [0] and a few times Simba[1]. Also I managed an ecommerce operation for a few years, so I dealt with coders and eventually code. Actually, I started this project in VBA after…

Fair enough, it sounded a bit like you learned python specifically for this project.

My bad for not being precise: I had to learn Python specifically for this project because the only memory I had about the course was: "Python bare basics were easy to learn". I had never even installed python locally or anything and saw those courses at the time as only games to get some minimum idea about the language, as I had no intended use for it.

Adding to this topic, now I can say it was easy enough, even for someone like me. A few times I needed help from actual people and got it from the kind and amazing folks that hang around StackOverflow Python chat, but mostly Python docs (or some simplified form of it provided by other website) and google queries would do the job when I had a code obstacle. Python was overall very intuitive for me, apart from a few surprises (mainly regarding scopes and names).

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