Live data from Hacker News

Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

arstechnica.com

71–80 of 139 posts

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#71

Google has us all by the balls. As a small business owner, in my particular market, I can't survive without their services, even though they suck and I hate them, and their entire company. My business can be destroyed by Google on a whim at a moment's notice. How did it get to be so bad?

That's an odd way to frame it. "even though they suck" they don't suck in giving you free traffic though and your complain is that they could stop giving it?

Essentially Google has filled a vacuum where other solutions could have existed, say, something based on the OSM dataset and non-proprietary technologies - possibly a federated set of solutions for finding businesses like cafes, restaurants or shops and such.

Now, it's pretty hard if not impossible to compete with them thanks to the network effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

How could any company that's interested in being "open" compete with a behemoth that has the advantage of countless engineer-years that have been spent developing their solutions, as well as millions of participants that have given them the data, which probably cannot be legally mined and imported and certainly isn't exported?

The answer is that they can't and being upset about this is probably a valid emotional response, even though it could be worded a bit better.

Edit: I can't help but to think of how the industry handles DNS domains, for example, the .lv domain for my country is looked after by the University of Latvia: https://www.nic.lv/en/about-us

I wonder what a similarly distributed registry of companies, for example, run by the governments of each country (which could then be integrated with the company registers) would look like. Of course, whether the quality of engineering or the overall experience would be up to par with Google's is debatable.

That said, the distributed COVID contact tracing approach that we saw was a little bit like this - even if Google and Apple did a lot of work for the underlying library, each country developed their own contact tracing app and eventually all of those could interoperate. There's no actual reason why the FOSS community couldn't build something like that, but for finding companies etc.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OSM is amazing. Way better at mapping than Google. When I hike I'm just walking in a green square in Google maps. OSM has every trail and hillslope etc. But what OSM lacks is real-time integration with public transport. If my bus is slow or redirected Google will tell me. I don't think this can be improved by the users. It really needs a data feed from the transport operators :'(

I've found that overall, for public transport, HERE maps is a feasible alternative in most cases, here's a quick example of how a route might look (though there is a mobile app available as well, IMO the performance is much better than Google Maps'): https://wego.here.com/directions/publicTransport/Riga-Intern... Now, of course, Google probably still has more real time data in this regard, especially since it's possi…

HERE WeGo is a great alternative to Google Maps. It works on Android, iOS, and web. Business data is pulled from TripAdvisor.

(The app store ratings for HERE WeGo are a bit low because they recently rewrote the app and the first few versions were unstable. The rewrite added lane guidance, which is a useful feature to have for driving directions.)

- HERE WeGo (web): https://wego.here.com

- HERE WeGo (Android): https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.here.app.m...

- HERE WeGo (iOS): https://apps.apple.com/us/app/here-wego-maps-navigation/id95...

If the quality of the OSM data in your area is good, the best OSM-based apps are:

- Organic Maps (FOSS, simple interface): https://organicmaps.app

- OsmAnd (FOSS, loaded with features): https://osmand.net

- Magic Earth (proprietary, uses a non-OSM data source for address locations): https://www.magicearth.com

All 3 of these apps support both Android and iOS.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that overall, for public transport, HERE maps is a feasible alternative in most cases, here's a quick example of how a route might look (though there is a mobile app available as well, IMO the performance is much better than Google Maps'): https://wego.here.com/directions/publicTransport/Riga-Intern... Now, of course, Google probably still has more real time data in this regard, especially since it's possi…

HERE WeGo is a great alternative to Google Maps. It works on Android, iOS, and web. Business data is pulled from TripAdvisor. (The app store ratings for HERE WeGo are a bit low because they recently rewrote the app and the first few versions were unstable. The rewrite added lane guidance, which is a useful feature to have for driving directions.) - HERE WeGo (web): https://wego.here.com - HERE WeGo (Android): https:/…

Thanks for the additional links, it's nice to have that many options!

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#74

Good. The government shouldn't be getting in the way of companies trying to make great products and services. It seems like if you are too good at playing the game people will want the government to slap you with things like anticompete / antitrust to try and give you a handicap since you are too good at being competitive.

Guess what... The more regulation, the harder it is to compete against too-big-to-fail well stablished corporations.

It's like no one here ever heard what regulatory capture or lobby is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Google is right in this case, but people will fail to recognize it, and ask for more state overreach that will end up making it harder to have multiple options in the future.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#75
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve tried to switch to Apple maps a few times. Most recently was last weekend I used it for navigation directions. The problem this time was on Google maps your route in the display is annotated with small white arrows at the point where you turn off your current road on to a turning or slip road. On Apple maps you don’t get that, you just see a continuous blue curve with no visual indication where the turns are. Ba…

The problem with Apple Maps is that it's just monumentally stupid, for lack of a better term. I live in east London, and the other day I searched for directions to "Barbican", which is both a tube station and landmark in central London. My transport preference in the app is set to public transport. Apple Maps gave me driving directions to an island called "Barbican" in the middle of the sea somewhere.

I just tried and it came up with Barbican centre and Barbican tube, might be worth updating to the latest version as there seem to have been a lot of improvement on the London map. Walking guidance also works better in Apple maps for me (especially with the watch). Still I also do find myself using Google Maps a lot of the time despite preferring the Apple one on privacy / design grounds.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#76
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve tried to switch to Apple maps a few times. Most recently was last weekend I used it for navigation directions. The problem this time was on Google maps your route in the display is annotated with small white arrows at the point where you turn off your current road on to a turning or slip road. On Apple maps you don’t get that, you just see a continuous blue curve with no visual indication where the turns are. Ba…

The problem with Apple Maps is that it's just monumentally stupid, for lack of a better term. I live in east London, and the other day I searched for directions to "Barbican", which is both a tube station and landmark in central London. My transport preference in the app is set to public transport. Apple Maps gave me driving directions to an island called "Barbican" in the middle of the sea somewhere.

So, how was the island?

I've experienced similar things, seems like one of the simpler problems to solve.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#77
post #9

This is inexcusably disgusting. Reminds me of the bullshit Amazon feeds their employees about unions.

I may be wrong since i'm not american, but it seems like unions are generally a controversial topic in the US.

Unions are relatively controversial everywhere. In the UK and other parts of Europe, for instance, they also divide opinion, either generally or in specific cases where they are accused of over-reach.

In the US I get the impression they are more controversial, perhaps because they are less common (so it is easier for those against to make mountains out of molehills because the public in general are less aware where the truth ends and the spin starts), perhaps because the US is more openly capitalistic (the old “in America many see themselves as temporarily inconvenienced millionaires, not middle-/working-/poor-class”) and unions are seen as a serious blocker in that frame of mind, perhaps because of the history if the word union by opposing political powers, most likely because of a mix of the above and the amount of shouty misinformation anything attracts from the likes of Fox “news” and similarly crap (but in some cases differently biased) outlets generate on every subject.

But they are definitely a controversial topic elsewhere too.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#78
post #35
post #29

Google Maps may silently be Alphabet's most powerful property. As someone who has spent the last 8 months religiously degoogling my life, I've found that Google Maps features are incredibly hard to replace, while at the same time, giving Google direct abilities to influence behavior in the physical world. People see it as "just a map", but it's so much more. OSM-based map tools are pretty good as maps, but they utter…

The data directory part of OSM is being improved by an interesting way: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete Basicaly a gamified editor that makes it easy and fun to fill in opening hours and onther important metadata while on the go. Frankly its almost addictive. :)

StreetComplete is a very user-friendly way to start contributing to OSM without needing to know anything about how OSM stores data. Looking up OSM keys/values for data entry can be tedious, and it's incredible how StreetComplete bypasses that completely. Most OSM editors work best on a large screen, but StreetComplete makes it quick and easy to contribute on mobile.

Another great tool for contributing to OSM is MapWithAI. It uses computer vision to identify the shapes of buildings and roads in satellite imagery, so that you can add them to the map with one click. The AI assistance considerably speeds up the process of adding items to the map, saving you from drawing them by hand.

MapWithAI is integrated with a fork of the online OSM editor (RapiD), which can also be used without learning about the technical details of OSM. If your area is missing a lot of buildings or roads in OSM, and you'd like to improve the maps, I encourage you to give it a try:

https://mapwith.ai

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#79
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve tried to switch to Apple maps a few times. Most recently was last weekend I used it for navigation directions. The problem this time was on Google maps your route in the display is annotated with small white arrows at the point where you turn off your current road on to a turning or slip road. On Apple maps you don’t get that, you just see a continuous blue curve with no visual indication where the turns are. Ba…

The problem with Apple Maps is that it's just monumentally stupid, for lack of a better term. I live in east London, and the other day I searched for directions to "Barbican", which is both a tube station and landmark in central London. My transport preference in the app is set to public transport. Apple Maps gave me driving directions to an island called "Barbican" in the middle of the sea somewhere.

To be fair, Google Maps is also stupid:

I once planned in advance and saved a trip with intermediary steps ending at what it calls "Domicile" (its way of saying Home in french). The next day I open the trip and the destination is no longer my home but a place doing home cleaning close to my start...

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#80
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work to get away from them and try to think ahead next time you use online services.

I don't use their services and yet my livelihood is entirely dependent on them (and Facebook). That's how bad it is.

You get a service that your livelihood depends on. It seems to me like the proper response is more like gratitude.
Post reply on HN