Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#461

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:40 AM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #447

makeitdouble wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes both ways: local talent will learn from the biggest companies in the world without having to leave, meaning their know how can be turned to local entities as well. For the pay, eventually it settles down as more and more companies try to see what they can get away with. US companies won’t be paying boatloads of money eternally (they were already resorting to offshoring to skimp) and local companies will have…

> It goes both ways: local talent will learn from the biggest companies in the world without having to leave, meaning their know how can be turned to local entities as well. It really doesn't. You end up with a whole segment of engineers that effectively become invisible to the local tech scene, because they are way above the local rates. Local companies are, basically, a waste of time for them. Also, keep in mind th…

It's a valid point, but it's not the whole story. When there is too much of a gap between the local scene and the global scene, there is an isolation effect.

But it doesn't mean these engineers live in their remote bubble. There will be a halo effect of showing the way to local talent, we've seen when subcontracting html integration to a remote shop. Once the contract and legal framing was established, it was easier for us to ask their junior member to do administration tasks or other basic data entry tasks.

The other path is for these higher level engineers to move directly to high level positions in local firm. You'll see a junior engineer by EU standards move to a CTO like position in a local company or startup.

All in all, I think the local part still tremendously benefits from having highly competent remote workers.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#462

Post by oblio » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:41 AM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #308

jaegerpicker wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now a days, it's very much true. I've worked for FAANG companies, a number of mid-major sized tech/internet companies, have had a engineering job for 20+ years, been a CTO and co-founded a VC backed company. All without any degree, in fact in the 20+ years in the field I've never once been out of work. Early in my career I was rejected a couple of times for lack of degree but I can't even remember the last time I was…

I work in a big tech company and you have to be extraordinary to get hired without a degree as an entry level dev. 10+ years experience and it won't matter so much, no.

That's why you join a small company that doesn't ask for anything, maybe a small web design shop. Then within a year you find some other company, maybe a middle ware company or consulting shop. And after that, since you now have 2-3 years of experience, you aim for the big boys.

Basically a sort of on-the-job-training-degree, just that you get paid for it :-)

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#463

Post by oblio » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:42 AM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #426

bsagdiyev wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

House prices where? We got our house for 345k and I earn 100k+ in North Carolina. Not everyone needs to live in California.

And you call that cheap?

A house at about 3.5 the yearly income is cheap, yes. Historically it was quite a bit more.

https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-inco...

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#464

Post by oblio » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:45 AM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #231

thriftwy wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is super expensive. Yes you can get a large paycheck, wait until you see house prices. Also current situation does not inspire confidence in somebody who may be identified as white male.

If you want to be located in a place which pays relatively high in Europe, housing prices are adequate. 10-15 years ago it would be possible to have disproportionally large salary in eastern places like Prague, but that's history now. Even if it still costs less than SF, your paycheck now looks adequate. Covid era raised prices everywhere.

> 10-15 years ago it would be possible to have disproportionally large salary in eastern places like Prague, but that's history now.

It still happens but you need to go further East, like Romania, for example.

But Romania is far more disorganized compared to Czechia, so there are downsides.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#465

Post by oblio » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:47 AM UTC

kcb wrote: post #407

AmericanBlarney wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked in tech at a large financial - while it may be second largest by headcount, I would guess perhaps not by total number of MDs/Partners? In my experience at a similar company, the off-shore offices were not viewed as being innovative or producing the same level of value per-person. There were a lot of junior/mid-level people there, but the projects were typically being driven from the US/UK. How does that stack…

What I've seen from a financial company perspective is it's mainly cost center development that was handled by the overseas offices. Product and revenue development stayed in the US.

It's the same for most IT companies.

The actual core business, secret sauce, top level management stays in the home country (in this case the US), and the remote offices get the grunt work and crumbs.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#466

Post by lmm » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

trevyn wrote: post #445

lmm wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard so many stories of people with top-tier insurance still going through medical bankruptcies in the US. And while you can pay to mitigate the crime risk in some ways, you can't avoid it entirely without seriously restricting your life. There are upsides to the US, but when I realised that I could never see myself retiring there I realised it made no sense to spend my working life there, even if the salary wo…

Crime risk? Where were you living?

I've lived in various places at various times, what specifically are you asking about?

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#467

Post by oblio » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:51 AM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #387

cblconfederate wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the realization people had through the pandemic is that a very large part of the western world is equally livable. Apart from economic opportunity, what else is there on US soil that makes it comparably preferable? And i think you re forgetting that the US has been outsourcing its manufacturing to china for decades, and china is , what 15 hours difference? Most of work is asynchronous I think the US has nothi…

But it's good for exactly who they are - the management. As long as Americans are replaced time and again, it changes the US. We used to care for each other. I think the fact that the greed machine is so precise and backstabbing and self-documented and codified there's nothing to tell it to stop hiring people outside the US simply for cheaper labor. I keep seeing people say that the economy is not a zero sum game - b…

> As long as Americans are replaced time and again, it changes the US. We used to care for each other. I think the fact that the greed machine is so precise and backstabbing and self-documented and codified there's nothing to tell it to stop hiring people outside the US simply for cheaper labor.

Heh, the bit about caring... Let's go:

* strike busters (sometimes extremely violent, there are documented case of actual cannons or bombers)

* rampant child labor

* super high crime rates

I think perception of the past is often affected by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fading_affect_bias :

> The fading affect bias, more commonly known as FAB, is a psychological phenomenon in which memories associated with negative emotions tend to be forgotten more quickly than those associated with positive emotions.

i.e. we forget the bad parts faster.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#468

Post by oblio » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 8:53 AM UTC

danvonk wrote: post #256

foxyv wrote: post #112

The demand for software developers and experts is a bottomless well right now in EVERY country. Hiring everywhere is a challenge. The problem is that software development is genuinely challenging. Training is a huge problem because programs can't keep up with the new technology. In the past 10 years there have been 3 separate revolutions in our technology stack and 2 in our project management. Everything is moving at…

If it really is a bottomless well everywhere, I must be doing something wrong...I just graduated from a well-regarded university in Germany with a degree in computer science and to be honest, it's not all that easy to get a job. For example, in London, as someone with no experience, you'll probably have to go with a graduate scheme--mostly at tech companies and banks. But when you apply, you'll be barraged first by c…

Get the first job in the field, almost no matter what.

Once you have that first job and about 1 year of experience, things become much easier.

Also, practice interviews, find books, courses, etc.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#469

Post by thriftwy » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #452

thriftwy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible to work remotely in post-covid era, which allows living in nicer, cheaper locales. No longer it is necessary to move where jobs are.

If you have family, this becomes more complex. If your kids are older have already good friends and social circles, such a move becomes supremely selfish

What if you already live in a cheaper, less bubbly area? Or decide to move there early on.

Then staying there and working remotely becomes family friendly, and moving becomes super selfish. Most people assume moving to get a good job, which will lead exactly to the consequences above.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#470

Post by rad_gruchalski » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 9:25 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #460

herbst wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are exceptions. - There are plenty of smaller tech hubs with way higher quality of life like Zurich, Berlin - Or others that are incredible affordable like Warsow, Bukarest, .. - The USD is not looking healthy from CHFs perspective. I would have to expect to earn less every month. - Getting paid from the US makes banking and taxes way more complicated. You can not even open a bank account without signing 3 time…

Don't get cocky. In Europe you literally can't get a job paying 200.000€ per year as an individual contributor, except for US companies. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong and for the respective position to not be a beyond-senior-contributor thing (so maybe 0.0001% of jobs out there).

I’d love to hear about those US based companies paying EU based ICs $200k / year and for the respective position to not be a beyond-senior-contributor thing (so maybe 0.0001% of jobs out there).