The demand for software developers and experts is a bottomless well right now in EVERY country. Hiring everywhere is a challenge. The problem is that software development is genuinely challenging. Training is a huge problem because programs can't keep up with the new technology. In the past 10 years there have been 3 separate revolutions in our technology stack and 2 in our project management. Everything is moving at…
It's not just the $60k developer in Sleepville, USA. Salaries in Bangalore have literally sky-rocketed.
Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
441–450 of 534 posts
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've looked into this and it seems the biggest difference is where the brackets are. They're much higher in the US, even if the marginal tax rate for high earners in California is not much lower than Germany.
curious, did you then add medical insurance in? My understanding is that at the highest marginal rates, the two countries are similar, but then you consider that those in the US are also paying additional health insurance premiums.
An experienced software engineer might take home, after taxes, $15-20k/month in my US tech city. High-quality health insurance for an entire family is on the order of $1-2k/month, assuming you had to pay for it yourself. If you are a FAANG-level engineer, not only are you not paying for that but you are being paid twice as much.
The cost of health insurance in the US is a real concern for the lower half of the middle class. Software engineers live in a completely different universe of concerns.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The prevailing wage in the UK is lower than in Silicon Valley, but higher than in, say, Oklahoma City. This probably isn't true. A quick googling indicates the average software engineer salary for Oklahoma City as being in the 70-80k USD range, while a similar googling says the number for the UK is around 50k GBP, which is...68k USD. The median software engineer salary for the US as a whole is 110k USD according to…
Are you comparing apples to apples? E.g. taxes, social contributions, social benefits, etc?
Post tax, I'd expect the US advantage to increase in raw monetary value, and the cost of living in Oklahoma City is probably very low for a sizable city, but of course the UK would offer superior benefits.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've looked into this and it seems the biggest difference is where the brackets are. They're much higher in the US, even if the marginal tax rate for high earners in California is not much lower than Germany.
curious, did you then add medical insurance in? My understanding is that at the highest marginal rates, the two countries are similar, but then you consider that those in the US are also paying additional health insurance premiums.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
The quality of life may be higher for lower middle class or poor people, but not for developers making $150k+ a year with benefits. And most of your points are just silly or negated by having money.
I've heard so many stories of people with top-tier insurance still going through medical bankruptcies in the US. And while you can pay to mitigate the crime risk in some ways, you can't avoid it entirely without seriously restricting your life. There are upsides to the US, but when I realised that I could never see myself retiring there I realised it made no sense to spend my working life there, even if the salary wo…
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
For me it was just enough information to make me more curious about what type of crypto company. I work for one too, but not on the fun web3 side of things.
Do you mind elaborating on what that is? Looking to learn as much about web 3 as possible. Thanks
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
The parent's premise is that it will make the US more powerful economically and make its tech companies more dominant. Which is exactly what it will do. The local tech labor supply will go to work for US corporations, which pay better than most everyone else. That will cement the US hegemony globally in tech (the sole major exception being domestic China, and to a far lesser extent domestic Russia). The US tech jugge…
It goes both ways: local talent will learn from the biggest companies in the world without having to leave, meaning their know how can be turned to local entities as well. For the pay, eventually it settles down as more and more companies try to see what they can get away with. US companies won’t be paying boatloads of money eternally (they were already resorting to offshoring to skimp) and local companies will have…
It really doesn't. You end up with a whole segment of engineers that effectively become invisible to the local tech scene, because they are way above the local rates. Local companies are, basically, a waste of time for them.
Also, keep in mind that working for a foreign subsidiary opens up many additional visa to someone who wants to relocate to the US main office. So a "first remote" approach might actually accelerate brain drain in the long run.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#448Except: - no country pay like the US. Worked for silicon valley companies remotely, and made twice the money I made in France, while being 3 times cheaper than local competition. - no country have the volume of hi-level coding gig job offers the US has. - few countries even have has many interesting projects. If you want to code in Haskell or Lisp in Europe, good luck. - the USA don't care about your diploma, only wh…
Scala, Haskell, Ocaml, Clojure, Coq, Idris are much more significant in the EU than in the US. Many Ph.D. contribute to language and ecosystem, and you can easily find exciting projects with them, not only crypto.
Even GHC was developed mainly by the EU and British people. The Swiss academy created Scala. Coq and Ocaml are big in French academy circles.
It's also a problem for me because I'm working from Eastern Europe (I can pay only 5% tax on all income up to 250k euro on remote). I primarily work with US companies, salaries are outstanding, but usually interesting FP-ish things are done in the EU, where wages are lower.
And I am on remote, so there is no profit for me to earn less with better social and government benefits like people in West Europe.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#449Except: - no country pay like the US. Worked for silicon valley companies remotely, and made twice the money I made in France, while being 3 times cheaper than local competition. - no country have the volume of hi-level coding gig job offers the US has. - few countries even have has many interesting projects. If you want to code in Haskell or Lisp in Europe, good luck. - the USA don't care about your diploma, only wh…
>If you want to code in Haskell or Lisp in Europe, good luck. I can agree with points around salary and diploma, but not on that one. Scala, Haskell, Ocaml, Clojure, Coq, Idris are much more significant in the EU than in the US. Many Ph.D. contribute to language and ecosystem, and you can easily find exciting projects with them, not only crypto. Even GHC was developed mainly by the EU and British people. The Swiss ac…
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are there a big enough talent pool of highly skilled and experienced developers in Italy or Spain? It’s a chicken and egg problem, you need to go where there’s already a market for these skills.
They could tap into infinite supply of developers from Romania, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, Russia... Who would move just for the privilege of living in literally sea side resort. I also think that some developers from Nordic countries will consider, and the rest of Europeans who would like the opportunity working at FAANG.
First, these are just not big cities with a lot of people. They don’t have large labor pools or many companies to choose from like London or Paris or Dublin to start with. It immediately limits the number of locals you can hire without relocation.
Second, many of these locations are not as friendly to immigrants. Either they don’t have existing communities or the visa programs they offer are not friendly to non-EU citizens. It is hard to get Indians to move to Bulgaria when they don’t speak the language, there are few other Indians there, and the govt does not provide visa programs that make it easy. Similarly, even though other EU nationals can work in places like Sofia without a visa, few are interested in this. They either want to go to big markets with all the amenities like Berlin, Paris, Dublin, or they want to stay in their home country. Romanians are not very interested in moving to Lithuania. The best candidates we’d find were Lithuanians who had been working in the US or London who wanted to move back to Lithuania for family reasons but work for a Silicon Valley type company.
This problem was amplified for older workers who had kids or wanted to start a family. They want to know it’s a place they can stay for a while.
Third, often times the govt were just not friendly to tech companies. In Portugal, there were many issues around employees working overtime (at all not just for extra pay), having to give one year notice of layoffs. The business viewed the labor laws as a hassle to do business there. They might put up with it in a market where they can hire a lot, but with the above problems, it made the locations even less attractive.