Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#391

Post by benjaminjackman » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:54 AM UTC

neom wrote: post #277

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the importance of physically residing in the US will decrease, and that there is an opportunity for other locales/governments to attract remote workers. COVID really did changed everything, and proved working from home not only works well, but more importantly to CFOs, made it significantly cheaper by literally outsourcing real estate costs to employees. The past few months have been interesting. I've been contacte…

I'm on the business side of the house, we keep waiting for rent to drop so we can find more space for growth, and it's not dropping because folks in real estate think there will be a rebound. As soon as I try to get into a negotiation, it's almost like they're MORE sticky on the price than they used to be, I guess because everyone is looking for a deal. I don't know what will happen but it makes no sense for me to pa…

My understanding and it could be wrong is that they can't lower their rates, (and might actually have to increase to compensate for more vacancy) because it will affect their ability to finance the buildings if they have lower rates from whatever math is used to calculate the soundness of the loans. That could be causing the stickiness on price you are seeing (if it's not apocryphal).

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#392

Post by ramesh31 » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:56 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #388

ramesh31 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not a problem for foreign companies that can and do pay "like the US", because they compete globally. Do they really though? How many non-US companies are paying $150k+ to mid level front end developers? I don't think that exists anywhere else.

Yeah - I'd be surprised. I hear European salaries are at best ~100k maybe ~120k and that's pretty much maxed out a decade in. Day 1 silicon valley devs do better than that. 150k is also out of date for mid-level FAANG total comp today. I hear it's more like 600k and goes up from there.

>150k is also out of date for mid-level FAANG total comp today. I hear it's more like 600k and goes up from there.

FAANG is a whole other ballgame. $150k is intern level pay there. I was just talking average total comp for B and C tier large companies outside the Bay. The kind of role an average self taught dev with 2-3 years experience could expect to land in any major US city.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#393

Post by LegitShady » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #377

LegitShady wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the qualified Canadians move to the USA for USA incomes. Canada is going to be an immigration station for people companies want to bring in but can't get US visas for. Its already a thing.

> All the qualified Canadians move to the USA for USA incomes This is patently untrue. See how well Shopify is doing in Canada. > Canada is going to be an immigration station for people companies want to bring in but can't get US visas for. Its already a thing. This is true though!

shopify is literally hiring kids still in school at Carleton and Yorke to fill their teams through their devdegree program because they can't get enough graduated and qualified coders who want to stay in canada.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#394

Post by exdsq » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

mistrial9 wrote: post #204

Gene5ive wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've heard about a classist element in Europe that might make the path I took unlikely. I dropped out of college, toiled in the service industry for 10 years, got sick of it, went to code school, got a tech job and 6 years later earn $130k. Still no degree. Is it true you can't do that there or is that just a stereotype?

I started a conversation with a visiting EU PhD and asked about programming languages. In a very good smelling way, he avoided the question. Apparently it is "blue collar" work to do actual programming? This one PhD did zero actual programming, apparently.

I've spent the last few years in Oxford with a bunch of PhDs and they all programmed. Those who didn't program were interested in programming & I taught a couple at a community organised code bootcamp. I'm now living next to Stanford and the same thing happened again. This isn't just traditional STEM either but economics and history students. Definitely anecdotal but I expect this is more common than those who don't program, especially as the social sciences and research-based humanities move towards programming. Hell, History degrees at Oxford now have the option of learning how to use databases to store and query information with SQL.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#395

Post by pcurve » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

rwaksmunski wrote: post #341

I'm earning 6 figures in central Europe working remotely for the Americans. Local corporations can't match that let alone beat it. I'm cheaper than U.S. resources, yet a lot more experienced and productive. I'm happy and the employer is really, really happy. If anything remote work solidified US strong hold on IT talent, not broke it.

Definitely great news for you, but not so great news for IT talent located the U.S. if more companies start doing this.

It's also bad news for employers in your country, because they're losing top talent like yourself to deep pocketed American companies.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#396

Post by gonehome » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

ramesh31 wrote: post #392

gonehome wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - I'd be surprised. I hear European salaries are at best ~100k maybe ~120k and that's pretty much maxed out a decade in. Day 1 silicon valley devs do better than that. 150k is also out of date for mid-level FAANG total comp today. I hear it's more like 600k and goes up from there.

>150k is also out of date for mid-level FAANG total comp today. I hear it's more like 600k and goes up from there. FAANG is a whole other ballgame. $150k is intern level pay there. I was just talking average total comp for B and C tier large companies outside the Bay. The kind of role an average self taught dev with 2-3 years experience could expect to land in any major US city.

Ah gotcha - yeah that sounds right to me.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#397

Post by deegles » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 1:05 AM UTC

JohnWhigham wrote: post #14

In the short term, I think it's going to be a lot harder than this article lets on, but long term, it is abundantly clear: cushy developer jobs in the US are on borrowed time. Salaries may continue to go up for a little while longer, but they will fall to reflect the rest of the world catching up with the US. And that's a scary prospect for those under 35 now. And I don't think there's a way out of it. We embrace rem…

Isn't this assuming that there are enough developers worldwide to satisfy the demand in the US? I think the reality is that there are not and will not for a long time.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#398

Post by jltsiren » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 1:07 AM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #380

the_only_law wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can probably take more vacation that you already get in Europe. I’ve always heard that places like this tend to pressure you into not taking many days or taking a more “normal” amount. I just started a job with unlimited vacation, so I’ll have to see how it goes. I think best case is I can have more shorter stints through the year.

my company seems to honor it pretty well. Last year, I took 7wks not counting company holidays. Half that this year (it was harder as I was spinning up in a new role).

That sounds pretty bad. You feel the pressure to take less vacation because things are busy at work.

In European workplace culture, the demands of the work tend to be immaterial to the amount of vacation you can take. If things are busy, it's up to your boss to figure out how to handle them while you are away. If they can't do that, it's seen as their failure, not yours. However, if your employer knows in advance that things will be busy, they have a limited ability to adjust the timing of your vacation, but they usually have to do that months in advance.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#399

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

AmericanBlarney wrote: post #190

Ehhh... Have been hearing some variation of this for 20 years. Canada and Singapore already have some tech presence (Singapore is huge for banking), so I don't think those are a particularly bold prediction. I would love for the Caribbean to become a thing but it seems less likely given the issues with governmental stability and severe weather. Just observing the companies I've worked for, I've also seen it's much ea…

The pandemic (finally) forced most companies to handle remote work, but remotely onboarding new employees is still terrible at most places.

What you've described will become common. Start a job in the flesh, get trained up and productive, then you're free to move. It will probably be harder for you to get promoted if you're working remotely, but you'll also be providing less value because you won't be there to help bring the new hires up to speed.

Companies that learn to onboard new employees remotely from the outset, efficiently and effectively, will have a monstrous competitive advantage in the coming years.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#400

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

a_t48 wrote: post #223

twox2 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you / have you ever worked at one?

I've interviewed at Google twice - passed once, declined continuing the process due to not being super interested in the product. I've declined interviewing at Facebook/Amazon. I haven't talked with Netflix nor Apple. I have not worked for one, but have never gotten any indication that the lack of diploma would be a problem. I gather that a decade of professional experience makes the lack of diploma irrelevant. As be…

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