Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#241

Post by richardsocher » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:28 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #229

richardsocher wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. Yea. We struggle with the extension -> navbar search requirement also. We have found that if you're not the default engine that is easily accessible from the Navbar, you will not be able to break the Google monopoly. We also found that many people will just do a quick search for "asd" or "weather" and then leave because those searches aren't really differentiated (and just can't really be). Our extension is 33kB…

Best growth hack: add a link to Google below your first results page. That way, more people will use your engine as their first choice, because they can easily fall back on their previously preferred search engine.

Great idea! We have it below the 2nd app on every page right now :)

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#242

Post by ohyeshedid » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:30 AM UTC

richardsocher wrote: post #225

pedalpete wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment about being the default engine to break people free of google, but do you have evidence that the browser extension is the way to get people to do that? On the other side, you have a search bar on the page, so I'm not exactly sure what people are complaining about.

It is a 5 second install or uninstall. Tbh, the browser extension is the best method for now but it's clearly not where we want to stay. Even after you install it and make a search from the navbar, Google will encourage you to change it back to Google and make the default button change the setting back. We hope to eventually be an option in the default search engines list. Eventually, maybe antitrust will encourage b…

> It is a 5 second install or uninstall.

I could smoke your os in less time. Time isn't the issue here.

> Tbh, the browser extension is the best method for now

Most of the people here, so far, are directly telling you it's not.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#243

Post by drusepth » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:30 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #208

richardsocher wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. Yea. We struggle with the extension -> navbar search requirement also. We have found that if you're not the default engine that is easily accessible from the Navbar, you will not be able to break the Google monopoly. We also found that many people will just do a quick search for "asd" or "weather" and then leave because those searches aren't really differentiated (and just can't really be). Our extension is 33kB…

Having the extension and letting people try it on the web seems like a more reasonable choice. People need to try it out. That said...there is a search textbox at the top of the page and it worked for me in Firefox and Chrome. Did people just miss it? If so, it should probably be in the middle with the big blue button.

For me, the textbox at the top of the page was disabled and said "Install the extension to search" in Chrome.

Edit: I refreshed and it wasn't disabled, but when I searched I got a "install the extension to view your results" page.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#244

Post by ipaddr » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:31 AM UTC

richardsocher wrote: post #213

DennisP wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having the extension and letting people try it on the web seems like a more reasonable choice. People need to try it out. That said...there is a search textbox at the top of the page and it worked for me in Firefox and Chrome. Did people just miss it? If so, it should probably be in the middle with the big blue button.

it takes 5 seconds to install and uninstall an extension. we will open source it also so people can see how simple and benign it is. It feels like 5s to help move the internet away from a privacy invading monopoly isn't too bad? If you like privacy and agency of your information diet, or saving lots of time while coding, or Reddit results always accessible to browse for most queries, etc. Then the 5s install will be…

Forcing users to install some random extension to use a privacy search engine is probably the worst value prop you can offer. What is the subset of privacy seeking users are part of the group of users willing to install random extensions exist?

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#245

Post by richardsocher » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:31 AM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #196

richardsocher wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, you can just go into incognito mode. we care a lot about privacy so we didn't want to mess with that. it should just work when you're in incognito mode. if you then also go into private mode - you'll have the MOST privacy preserving search experience that we know of, certainly even better than DDG: Here's our blog post about how we think about the privacy-convenience tradeoff: https://youdotcom.notion.site/Priva…

That's indeed unfortunate, I hope you reconsider.

yea. we'll revisit it from time to time. most people who REALLY dont want to install our extension probably won't do it after 2 searches either?

and sadly, the 2tr$ monopoly that is Google made this the only way for us to provide the convenience of a navbar search right now?

hopefully we can be a default option at some point or we'll have to build our own browser :)

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#246

Post by richardsocher » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

somenewaccount1 wrote: post #136

ulber wrote: post #124

I found your pitch really interesting, I'd love to try it. I, however, refuse to install an extension and change my default search engine just to be allowed to type in a search query. I'm sure you have some "growth hacking" reason for this that is compelling to you. Maybe you hope that the slight annoyance of switching back will outweigh the inevitable annoyances with a new product like this. It does come off as user…

yeah, i installed the extension and it immediately mucked with my chrome profiles. thanks, but no thanks. glad i'm not the only one that felt this way.

that's a chrome setting. our extension has zero influence on your chrome profiles. we'll open source it soon so you can verify :)

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#247

Post by newbie789 » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:33 AM UTC

richardsocher wrote: post #224

newbie789 wrote: post #218

1. Who are the folks behind this? 2. How is this funded? 3. The You.com domain must have been an incredibly expensive purchase. The folks that wrote the check for that were cool with never selling user data at any point down the road? 3a. Did the people that wrote the check for you.com make the money they put into it from investing in companies that do sell user data? 4. I’m actually supposed to believe that they don…

Hey 1 It's me, Richard Socher and my cofounder Bryan MacCann. Stanford, MetaMind startup, then Salesforce. Plus a bunch of other incredible and wonderful humans :) 2 We raised a 20m seed from Marc Benioff, Jim Breyer and a few others. 3 the you.com has never been for sales. 4 yea. we haven't really thought about it too much but have some creative ideas we want to explore together with our community. in private mode,…

5 is the most important because without a reasonable revenue model, selling to a larger company and washing your hands of your privacy promises is the clearest way to make money later.

Edit: you guys didn’t buy you.com from anybody? The domain “you.com” was up for grabs and you guys bought it for $10 on godaddy?

Edit 2: Thanks for answering 3a in the affirmative :). Yes, this is funded by folks that have made millions from investing in businesses that sell user data.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#248

Post by ivanalejandro0 » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:38 AM UTC

richardsocher wrote: post #173

primitivesuave wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly second this. I immediately gave up on trying it out once I realized I had to download something. Your KPIs should be around how sticky your search features are, it seems like it is currently based on download counts.

Hey. Yea. We struggle with the extension -> navbar search requirement also. We have found that if you're not the default engine that is easily accessible from the Navbar, you will not be able to break the Google monopoly. We also found that many people will just do a quick search for "asd" or "weather" and then leave because those searches aren't really differentiated (and just can't really be). Our extension is 33kB…

> We also found that many people will just do a quick search for "asd" or "weather" and then leave because those searches aren't really differentiated (and just can't really be).

This is an interesting point, I've seen other apps tackling this issue providing different pre-defined use cases that you can just click to use them. For example, online apps where you can upload a photo and get a somehow tweaked version of it (like cartooning your face or something like that), so users that want to give it a quick try can click on pre-uploaded pictures from a list and see results.

For this case maybe providing a good handful of search use cases where users wanting to give it a quick try could just click and see results could work to keep them away of dumb queries.

Good luck!

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#249

Post by ohyeshedid » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

richardsocher wrote: post #236

Matthias1 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the fact that all your extension does is change the setting is worse, not better. It's purely a user-hostile choice.

yea.. why? the truth is that most users have no other easily accessible way for them to switch away from a monopoly that sells them, their data and privacy to the highest bidder and requires all companies to pay a tax to exist in the online economy... if you are an expert, you can change your settings manually and hence not require the extension.

Respectfully: because nobody knows who the fuck you are, and your reasoning doesn't make sense.

You want to offer a privacy focused search service, but the users need to install an extension because otherwise instead of just having a regular web frontend for the masses to try. Then it's too hard for lusers to switch; you created this problem for yourself.

The more you respond, the more it looks like this is some poorly thought out lead capture, or you're so focused on the service you don't understand the broader security concerns.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#250

Post by drusepth » Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 12:40 AM UTC

richardsocher wrote: post #193

djfdat wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

add &fromSearchBar=false to the end of the search, so the search string looks like this: https://you.com/search?q=%s&fromSearchBar=false

that's it. very easy if you're technical. of course, we don't want to block our users. we are just trying to make it convenient and easy to have navbar searches - we found that if you're not in the navbar yngmi..

>we don't want to block our users. we are just trying to make it convenient and easy to have navbar searches

You are, quite literally, blocking potential users by putting a wall up in front of your search engine instead of trusting them to just remember to search at "you.com". Your workarounds are just more walls (opening an incognito window, adding URL parameters, etc) that aren't feasible: if you don't trust someone to remember "you.com", they're definitely not going to remember to also add `&fromSearchBar=false` to their queries.

It comes off as user-hostile. It makes me think you think so little of me (or other users) that I need my hand held through changing my search engine. I don't, and I don't appreciate a search engine treating me like I'm stupid.