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Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

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Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#11

Post by [deleted] »

arcticbull wrote: post #9
MrWiffles wrote: post #8

Some quick points: > 233 patients Very small, can't generalize results based on such a small number. Doesn't mean the study's trash or anything, but don't jump to any conclusions here - good or bad. > "The trial, which had all patients stopping antidepressants before participating, compared two active doses of COMP360, 25mg and 10mg, against a comparator 1mg dose." - COMP360 was, I assume, their therapeutic psilocybi…

> Very small, can't generalize results based on such a small number. This comes up pretty often, but how many subjects do you need to know getting punched in the face hurts? It's absolutely possible to get statistically significant data from 233 patients, what matters is how the study is designed.

[deleted]

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#13

Post by newbamboo »

I’m a believer in the potential value but think placebo or blind studies of psychedelics are absurd. You know full well of you’ve eaten an eighth of cubensis.

I think to be fair, they should compare psychedelic treatment to other therapies like ECT or a weeklong vacation to Hawaii.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#14

Post by constantlm »

icameron wrote: post #10

I had to look it up to put it in perspective. 25mg pure psilocybin could be around 5g of dried p. cubensis if they are .5% (which varies considerably...) point being this is no microdose. These patients are really tripping! So they are saying a psychedelic experience, which could reconstruct your entire ego, really can be a significant life-changing event.

Terence McKenna called 5 grams an heroic dose.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#15

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #5

The trial tested psilocybin combined with therapy. This isn’t equivalent to ad-hoc self treatment with mushrooms. They noticed a response to psilocybin+therapy in about 20-25% of patients depending on the criteria for “sustained response”: > The protocol-defined sustained response* up to week 12 was double, with 20.3% of patients in the 25mg group It’s also notable that about 5% of the psilocybin receivers experience…

This sounds pretty crappy right? If I'm understanding the numbers, 25% response is about like what we get with a placebo in most studies if my memory is correct.

It sounds like they were tripping balls on 25 mg, so this is definitely in active placebo range.

From my memory:

Placebo is about 25%.

Antidepressants about 35% response rate.

Active placebo of something like atropine which makes you feel weird but isn't an antidepressant has about a 35% response rate.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/are-antidep...

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#17

Post by m0zg »

For me, I get depressed when I feel "stuck" in my circumstances (mostly a directionless project, bad boss, or cancerous working environment, or all of the above). I suppose going on a "trip" would alleviate that significantly, at least for a while. Then you'll get used to it and you'll be back to square one you can't escape without fixing the root cause. So any enthusiasm for this is going to have to be tempered by long term studies and outcomes. Any significant change in one's circumstances can _tactically_ alleviate depression somewhat.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#18

Post by tasty_freeze »

newbamboo wrote: post #13

I’m a believer in the potential value but think placebo or blind studies of psychedelics are absurd. You know full well of you’ve eaten an eighth of cubensis. I think to be fair, they should compare psychedelic treatment to other therapies like ECT or a weeklong vacation to Hawaii.

To someone who has done mushrooms before, sure, they can tell. But for people with no psychedelic experience, niacin (a common stand-in) causes flushing and some other effects which a patient can tell "is doing something."

IIRC, the famous "Good Friday" psilocybin experiment had some people from the control group believe they were not in the control group.

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#19

Post by darkerside »

sojournerc wrote: post #7
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #2

Wow, 5% reported suicidal ideation or self harm, in a clinical setting. That’s pretty horrible.

Well, participants were already on anti-depressants, and asked to stop before the trial, so causation isn't clear.

Well, how did it compare to the control group?

Re: Compass Pathways' Phase IIb psilocybin trial shows reduced depression symptoms

#20

Post by yeetaccount »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #18
newbamboo wrote: post #13

I’m a believer in the potential value but think placebo or blind studies of psychedelics are absurd. You know full well of you’ve eaten an eighth of cubensis. I think to be fair, they should compare psychedelic treatment to other therapies like ECT or a weeklong vacation to Hawaii.

To someone who has done mushrooms before, sure, they can tell. But for people with no psychedelic experience, niacin (a common stand-in) causes flushing and some other effects which a patient can tell "is doing something." IIRC, the famous "Good Friday" psilocybin experiment had some people from the control group believe they were not in the control group.

> IIRC, the famous "Good Friday" psilocybin experiment had some people from the control group believe they were not in the control group.

I can find a few people right now that believe that Lord of the Rings is a historical account of medieval Europe.

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