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USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

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Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#121

Post by go_blue_13 »

_red wrote: post #119
TimPC wrote: post #118

Degrees are often used as proxies for an IQ test. To get into school X you must be at least Y smart. As long as we ban IQ tests for employment employers are going to keep using this as the best practical proxy. It’s going to have these kinds of bad effects where people need to get $115k degrees to get a $50k job since some people will do so despite the nonsensical ROI. We need to remove the law banning IQ tests in jo…

> As long as we ban IQ tests for employment employers are going to keep using this as the best practical proxy. I Thats probably true to a degree, however I think the system will breakdown this decade. Given current inflation rates, anyone with an IQ >120 will soon see that the debt/benefit ratio is becoming unworkable. The last 2 employees my company hired actually game via github - we were using an open-source repo…

Doesn't inflation mean that nominal debt is less painful to hold? ie I go $100k into debt for a degree, but 5 years down the line that $100k only has $50k buying power (in original year terms), so its easier to pay off?

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#122

Post by BizarroLand »

999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

I don't know if there is a solution to this, but it seems like the cost should be somehow equivalent to the average payout. I feel that college in general would serve the country better if the results were tied to the expenses and efforts required. A Sociology degree that empowers people to make life changes for disadvantaged and neglected people (while living on subsistence wages) would serve our future better if it were basically free, whereas STEM degrees that increase your likelihood of retiring a millionaire by 50% over the average could be feasibly worthwhile if they cost $300k.

I took on $65k of loans for my BS but make six figures myself, so it was worth it for me. I can't image 5x the cost for 1/3rd the reward. That's just stupid.

I admit that the person who took this path is to blame for some of it, but a college tying $300,000 to a degree that earns $5/hr more than a fry cook is also at some level to blame along with the path society took to enable this scenario to exist in the first place.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#123

Post by parm289 »

Perhaps a bit off topic, but seeing the breadth of general discussion about online CS masters programs in this thread, figured I'd ask the HN crowd:

How is a program like the Penn MCIT Online degree[0] viewed by engineering and product hiring teams in industry? I am looking at transitioning from venture capital investing to SWE (and potentially product, given my business background) and this seems like a good option to facilitate that change - education in CS fundamentals (vs. a bootcamp) but still a reasonably short/practical program (10 courses).

Curious if there are engineers/PMs here that have gone through MCIT or similar to pivot into software from another field? Or, if any hiring managers here have hired graduates from these online degree programs and have insight/advice?

[0]: https://online.seas.upenn.edu/degrees/mcit-online/

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#124

Post by eindiran »

BizarroLand wrote: post #122
999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

I don't know if there is a solution to this, but it seems like the cost should be somehow equivalent to the average payout. I feel that college in general would serve the country better if the results were tied to the expenses and efforts required. A Sociology degree that empowers people to make life changes for disadvantaged and neglected people (while living on subsistence wages) would serve our future better if it…

This creates an incentive structure that is exactly the opposite of what you want.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#125

Post by autokad »

parm289 wrote: post #123

Perhaps a bit off topic, but seeing the breadth of general discussion about online CS masters programs in this thread, figured I'd ask the HN crowd: How is a program like the Penn MCIT Online degree[0] viewed by engineering and product hiring teams in industry? I am looking at transitioning from venture capital investing to SWE (and potentially product, given my business background) and this seems like a good option…

I can't speak of the online degree, but the MCIT program is pretty good. I graduated from the standard CS but many of my friends were in the MCIT degree. Given they came from more varied backgrounds, I actually thought the student body was more impressive.

However, I dont know how all of this online stuff is going to effect things. I would just show up to wharton classes and wait for them to not kick me out, but online ... no chance. You also miss out on all the great conversations and doing study groups at the library, etc.

The program is strong, and it will help you get lots of interviews, but I'd do what ever possible to do the in person degree. I c an recommend good DS classes at the school if you are interested in that topic

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#126

Post by jeffy90 »

opinion-is-bad wrote: post #120
999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

If the colleges had to take a stake in the debt repayment, or lack thereof, they probably would do a better job ensuring their graduates don’t take out impossible loans. Adults can make bad decisions, but many that are getting trapped in student loan debt are making the decisions while still technically underage.

I really like this idea, only edge case I wonder about is if such a policy would incentivize colleges to avoid letting in students from low income backgrounds.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#127

Post by BizarroLand »

eindiran wrote: post #124
BizarroLand wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if there is a solution to this, but it seems like the cost should be somehow equivalent to the average payout. I feel that college in general would serve the country better if the results were tied to the expenses and efforts required. A Sociology degree that empowers people to make life changes for disadvantaged and neglected people (while living on subsistence wages) would serve our future better if it…

This creates an incentive structure that is exactly the opposite of what you want.

How so? Take a lower paying course that benefits society for little or no cost to you or a higher paying course that will push you into the upper middle or lower upper class that costs more.

The only losers here would be the colleges that no longer get to charge the same $300k for every degree they stamp.

Where is my logic wrong?

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#128

Post by aserdf »

999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

- Adults have a right to make poor choices.

agree however the vast majority of high school kids are marketed to and forced to make decisions about college, while having little to no comprehension of the magnitude and permanence of their decision, when they are 17 years old (minors).

graduate school of course being a different story.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#129

Post by eindiran »

go_blue_13 wrote: post #121
_red wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as we ban IQ tests for employment employers are going to keep using this as the best practical proxy. I Thats probably true to a degree, however I think the system will breakdown this decade. Given current inflation rates, anyone with an IQ >120 will soon see that the debt/benefit ratio is becoming unworkable. The last 2 employees my company hired actually game via github - we were using an open-source repo…

Doesn't inflation mean that nominal debt is less painful to hold? ie I go $100k into debt for a degree, but 5 years down the line that $100k only has $50k buying power (in original year terms), so its easier to pay off?

Yes inflation does mean exactly that, but maybe OP meant interest rates (which I believe have been trending up of late).
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