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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#91

Post by stonepresto »

AlexandrB wrote: post #9

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

We're doing it to ourselves. We're the ones who keep clicking "I agree", who keep feeding these companies. Of course they're going to look to make a profit off of your data, there's nothing stopping them because we willingly gave it up.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#92

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

kelnos wrote: post #46
travoc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need more similarities? The mass data collection completes the system.

Because we need to understand the purpose of the data collection and what bad things might happen because of it. If Treasury is using this data to catch people who violate economic sanctions, ok. If the IRS is using this data to catch people who cheat on their taxes, ok. I don't love either of those things, but they are using the data only to do things that have been defined as their job to do for a long time now. Th…

> There doesn't seem to be any evidence that any of this data is going to be used to

Irrelevant. Get a targeted warrant, then get limited data.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#93

Post by [deleted] »

AlexandrB wrote: post #9

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

[deleted]

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#94

Post by avs733 »

travoc wrote: post #39
Sevastopol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

Why do you need more similarities? The mass data collection completes the system.

Private corporations are collecting the data, the state is just buying it, and I doubt they are the only customer.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#95

Post by getcrunk »

cjcole wrote: post #73

It seems apparent that the US government is pursuing a novel strategy to route around the Bill of Rights: Steps: * Allow (and encourage) private sector monopolies to form * Use its leverage and influence to "encourage" those monopolies to do things which the US government is not allowed to do (examples: censorship, data collection) The list of First Amendment precedents, for example, with respect to the government is…

This is exactly what is happening. And afaict as far back as the 70's. Major isp's taking public funds, close relationship between nsa and Google

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#96

Post by mywittyname »

mc32 wrote: post #81
mywittyname wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit scores are used as a proxy for Ideal Citizenship. It just so happens to have baked into it enough plausible deniability as to not run afoul of anti-discrimination laws. Turns out, a lot of "bad" actions result in missed bill payments.

In a semi anonymous society how else do you suppose one should determine the creditworthiness of someone? It used to be the merchant had to know you and you had to build up your credit with each merchant over time. Credit scoring made it easier for merchants and customers to issue and leverage we credit.

My comment might come off as an indictment of credit scores. But it really isn't.

They absolutely solve the problem that you are pointing out. But they also serve to kind of solve a whole class of other problems around identifying behaviors that correlate with bad credit scores.

For example, if you're a land lord who vehemently opposes divorce, it's possible to use a poor credit score as cover to deny renting to this middle-aged guy who is clearly just gone through one.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#97

Post by FpUser »

Sevastopol wrote: post #29
AlexandrB wrote: post #9

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

The similarity is global system of collecting every piece of data about citizens.

You start with the little. Due to complexity and sheer amounts of laws, bylaws etc. each one of us breaks few of those every day. The systems like the one being mentioned will eventually be able to track those as well making every citizen an offender. Then when the time comes who do you thing they will choose to prosecute? Most likely those pesky human rights advocates and other similar people who are already monitored.

I think unless some "Reset" button is pushed we will end up exactly like this. End up on various lists (already happening) and private companies denying vital services.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#98

Post by FpUser »

kelnos wrote: post #46
travoc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need more similarities? The mass data collection completes the system.

Because we need to understand the purpose of the data collection and what bad things might happen because of it. If Treasury is using this data to catch people who violate economic sanctions, ok. If the IRS is using this data to catch people who cheat on their taxes, ok. I don't love either of those things, but they are using the data only to do things that have been defined as their job to do for a long time now. Th…

>"Because we need to understand the purpose of the data collection and what bad things might happen because of it."

And government would of course never abuse the data it has. We've heard that before. The have, they do and they will keep doing it.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#99

Post by mc32 »

mywittyname wrote: post #96
mc32 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a semi anonymous society how else do you suppose one should determine the creditworthiness of someone? It used to be the merchant had to know you and you had to build up your credit with each merchant over time. Credit scoring made it easier for merchants and customers to issue and leverage we credit.

My comment might come off as an indictment of credit scores. But it really isn't. They absolutely solve the problem that you are pointing out. But they also serve to kind of solve a whole class of other problems around identifying behaviors that correlate with bad credit scores. For example, if you're a land lord who vehemently opposes divorce, it's possible to use a poor credit score as cover to deny renting to this…

Sure but previous to credit scores what was the option? References from friends and business acquaintances?

Sure credit scores aren’t perfect but they are better than the legacy alternative.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#100

Post by FpUser »

boringg wrote: post #72
Sevastopol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

Agree with Sevastopol how is it even similar? I ask, honestly, if anyone else one here is seeing a large influx of intentionally skewing of what the US does and makes it comparable to some terrible policy that China does. It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China. Feels very much like the Russian disinformation campaigns as…

>"It really feels like there are a lot of people with strong Chinese interests mudding the waters of debate by equating the US with China."

What you say feels to me as Joseph McCarthy has just sprung back to life.

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