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USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

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Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#111

Post by YetAnotherNick »

mrits wrote: post #60
maerF0x0 wrote: post #20

not to be too cold about the real people hurt by the mischaracterization, but... My local ferrari dealership basically implies my life will be perfect (all the pretty women will fawn over me!!) if I just buy one of their cars. America made these institutions into for profit companies. We have to stop giving them the goodwill we'd afford to altruistic/idealistic academic institutions. Yes USC has a "not for profit" la…

Your Ferrari dealer at least has a point though. You also can get most of your money back if you decide to sell later.

But you don't get to use it. You could drop off in the first semester by that logic and it would have saved most of her money.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#112

Post by datavirtue »

fifthofhisname wrote: post #78
zeropoint46 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish they had something like this for undergrad.

Oregon State University offers an online B.S. in Computer Science and Engineering. [0] They also offer an accelerated course if you already have an undergrad degree (e.g. for those looking for a career change). [1] [1] https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/online-degrees/undergraduate... [0] https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/online-degrees/undergraduate...

Finally. When my wife went there they only had biology and ag tracks online.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#113

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

It's the degree that matters as much as (or more than) the institution. If you get a degree in a field that has low barriers of entry, few employers (or only a monopoly employer such as the state), and no opportunity to freelance, then you will not get high wages.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#114

Post by YetAnotherNick »

woeirua wrote: post #64

The only way to effectively address the college tuition bubble is going to be for Congress to pass a law that caps the amount of student loans that someone can draw to be proportional to their expected salary over X years on a per-school, per-program basis. That would put a lot of pressure on underperforming programs and schools to produce better value for their students, either by improving outcomes, or by reducing…

This sounds good on paper but this would just lead to degrees like liberal arts to be removed from the country.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#115

Post by 999900000999 »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #111
mrits wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your Ferrari dealer at least has a point though. You also can get most of your money back if you decide to sell later.

But you don't get to use it. You could drop off in the first semester by that logic and it would have saved most of her money.

You can also file for bankruptcy 3 years after driving the car off the lot.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#116

Post by datavirtue »

woeirua wrote: post #17
bluedevil2k wrote: post #7

And almost all got loans backed by the US government that they won’t be able to repay and will fall on the US taxpayer to cover. Essentially USC bilked the US taxpayers out of millions, with these poor students serving as the unfortunate middlemen. Solution: make the universities have some skin the game - cover 20% of the principal on defaulted loans.

Given the price inelasticity of college, the money to cover these defaults would probably just come from other students. They'd just hike tuition to cover the risk. A much better solution is to revoke the ability of students at specific schools/programs to qualify for federal student loans if the outcomes of the program are poor. Turn off the spigot of money, and they will cleanup their act really quickly.

You can't just hike tuition unless the government is pumping out 100% loans. This is crazy.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#117

Post by datavirtue »

jdavis703 wrote: post #40
bluedevil2k wrote: post #7

And almost all got loans backed by the US government that they won’t be able to repay and will fall on the US taxpayer to cover. Essentially USC bilked the US taxpayers out of millions, with these poor students serving as the unfortunate middlemen. Solution: make the universities have some skin the game - cover 20% of the principal on defaulted loans.

Won’t that solution make it harder for students from economically disadvantaged backgrounds to get loans? Or is the idea here that universities would be prohibited from applying risk management to their loan portfolio?

Most economically disadvantaged people don't even know they can get a loan. I used to assume everyone knew about government college loans. Most do not.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#118

Post by TimPC »

Degrees are often used as proxies for an IQ test. To get into school X you must be at least Y smart. As long as we ban IQ tests for employment employers are going to keep using this as the best practical proxy. It’s going to have these kinds of bad effects where people need to get $115k degrees to get a $50k job since some people will do so despite the nonsensical ROI. We need to remove the law banning IQ tests in job interviews and let employers test for the kinds of things they currently proxy by university degree.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#119

Post by _red »

TimPC wrote: post #118

Degrees are often used as proxies for an IQ test. To get into school X you must be at least Y smart. As long as we ban IQ tests for employment employers are going to keep using this as the best practical proxy. It’s going to have these kinds of bad effects where people need to get $115k degrees to get a $50k job since some people will do so despite the nonsensical ROI. We need to remove the law banning IQ tests in jo…

> As long as we ban IQ tests for employment employers are going to keep using this as the best practical proxy. I

Thats probably true to a degree, however I think the system will breakdown this decade. Given current inflation rates, anyone with an IQ >120 will soon see that the debt/benefit ratio is becoming unworkable.

The last 2 employees my company hired actually game via github - we were using an open-source repo that someone had made and eventually reached out and asked him if he wanted to consult for us and add some features to his code...that lead to an ongoing basic permanent consulting gig.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#120

Post by opinion-is-bad »

999900000999 wrote: post #106

Ehh eh. I went to a CSU for like 6k a year. If you want to be elitist and attend the most expensive school possible, you have to eventually pay for it. > Ms. Fowler, a 2018 graduate, enjoyed the program but owes $307,000 in total student-loan debt, including about $200,000 from the master’s degree. She said she earns $48,000 as a community mental-health therapist in Mount Pleasant, Iowa. This translates into paying 3…

If the colleges had to take a stake in the debt repayment, or lack thereof, they probably would do a better job ensuring their graduates don’t take out impossible loans. Adults can make bad decisions, but many that are getting trapped in student loan debt are making the decisions while still technically underage.
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