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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#31

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

Wait until the US public finds out about the concept of a credit score (new in the 1980s).

Credit score for ghee most part tries to assure lenders you can repay your debts.

Social credit score is about how close you hew to proscribed behavior at large.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#32
If one sees the U.S. constitution and its amendments merely as dated conventions, there is no reason for the IRS and other agencies not to leverage tech to drive enforcement numbers, and for the agencies themselves to just become the policy levers they want to have. However, there are others who believe the rules are in place to prevent this precise type of eventuality, where a technological change shifts the balance of power and shreds any perception of a social contract, so you need rules that limit the scope and powers of government so it doesn't consume and enslave everything.

I think a generation of people who believe the former statement have taken control of institutions, and we're watching it play out now. If you want to predict what this generation of bureaucracy will do, find the emergency exceptions and notwithstanding discretion to every law that protects the individual and limits the power of government, and then contrive the excuse that enables it, and this will be the policy and tactics of the people behind it. This Treasury collecting data story isn't about legalisms and principles, the people doing it really are nihilists, where language itself is just words that can mean anything, so it might as well mean whatever they want. Arguing under the false belief that principles and logic matters means doing nothing while they ratchet up controls and make themselves impossible to dislodge.

You aren't going to persuade the Treasury or other people involved in these plays with reason, as the prospect of total, permanent, tech-facilitated dominion means the stakes are too high for them not to make a play for it. Only the courts, or sadly, conflict can dislodge it I think. We need to seriously consider how much tech is causing our governments to metastasize, and what the options for mitigating it are.

There is no reason to believe your phone that tracks everything about you will not be used by people in government without accountability as leverage against you personally. This was paranoid ranting 20 years ago, and today it's just unpopular buzzkill. All that's left is to say "it was ever thus" and the only people who complained were the ones merely maladapted to the change and the inevitable progress of history.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until the US public finds out about the concept of a credit score (new in the 1980s).

Credit score for ghee most part tries to assure lenders you can repay your debts. Social credit score is about how close you hew to proscribed behavior at large.

My understanding was it basically was providing a way to incentivize indigent people to behave the law by imposing penalties for failing to pay fines.

In the US, fines are mostly meaningless if you are poor as debtor prisons are (rightfully) illegal.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#34

Idea: get together some money, buy data of 100 of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. Publish everything found, see if the laws are then changed...

A good start, but their profiles are probably incredibly well scrubbed (or whatever is out there is already mitigated).

Instead, collect it on every Congressperson and then see how fast things change. Most politicians don't have the means to scrub their backgrounds like multi-million dollar PR-vulnerable CEOs.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#35
a) Both contracts are tiny ($150k each) although obviously these may be pilot programs.

b) Finding evaders of sanctions seems like it should fall under a national security agency's purvue. We all take it for granted that the NSA could pinpoint our locations pretty easily, right? One thing that's particularly insane about the US government is how many departments have intelligence agencies. Obviously the ideal would be to have a small handful of well regulated intelligence agencies (emphasis on "well regulated", and you only have to look at the overreach by e.g. the CIA over the past 50 years to know that the US has had issues with that.)

c) The tax evasion contract looks at social media posts to find tax evaders. I wouldn't be particularly upset if the IRS had their own internal tech department doing this - if you're going to have a tax agency, you want it to be able to prevent cheating, otherwise the tax system falls apart. Finding people who have declared themselves to have beaten the system in a public forum is a cheap and easy way to go after cheaters.

There's a lot of pork in contracts that government agencies give out to private contractors, but this seems like a relatively low spend, and so it doesn't seem particularly bad that the IRS has decided that this is outside of their current expertise and given out a contract to chase it.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#36
The pseudonymised ad data is just going to tell you the numbers of people travelling to sanctioned states. No big deal. There would be a story here if the government was re-identifying people, which would be a clear breach of the law. But there’s no evidence or suggestion of that happening, just “assume the worst of government” speculation. Poor journalism.

As for looking at public social media posts for evidence of tax dodging, I’d hope that if someone was dumb enough to advertise this publicly, and everyone can see they are abusing other citizens out of funding for public services, the IRS should look into it.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#37
A lot of right vs left division is one side wanting to restrain corporations and the other side wanting to restrain government. Privacy concerns are one way to break through that divide when government and corporations unite.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#38

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

From what I've read China's social credit system does not yet incorporate any non-financial information; that part is more aspirational.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#39

This is not a new take, but I think "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. It's just distributed among a range of private companies and accessed via subpoena or contract. The fact that the government doesn't operate most of it directly is largely irrelevant to those negatively affected by it and in some ways makes the situation worse (who do you even contact to correct inaccura…

> "the west" is effectively building their own version of China's social credit. China's social credit system allegedly assigns (or will assign?) all citizens scores and punishes them for social wrongdoings. The IRS has always been tasked with auditing and catching tax cheats, the Treasury always went after people who violate economic sanctions. What's the similarity other than data collection?

Why do you need more similarities? The mass data collection completes the system.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#40

Idea: get together some money, buy data of 100 of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. Publish everything found, see if the laws are then changed...

It's probably faster to buy data on members of Congress. I assume that's where things likt the Video Privacy Protection Act came from.
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