Earlier quoted context omitted.
By my estimation, even factoring in the cost of living, medical insurance, tax differences etc, people working in the Bay area are taking home twice what an equally qualified dev would take home in say, London. If anything the contrast is even more stark across the EU
I think the "equally qualified" point you're making is highly disingenuous. Qualified doesn't mean you can churn out so many lines of code or have X years of experience at a company or whatever, it means you have right kind of experience. To a big company like Facebook or Google, someone from SV who has a few years in the local industry has more relevant "experience" to the position than someone in London with 10 yea…
Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
191–200 of 534 posts
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#192Except: - no country pay like the US. Worked for silicon valley companies remotely, and made twice the money I made in France, while being 3 times cheaper than local competition. - no country have the volume of hi-level coding gig job offers the US has. - few countries even have has many interesting projects. If you want to code in Haskell or Lisp in Europe, good luck. - the USA don't care about your diploma, only wh…
Yeah, I've heard about a classist element in Europe that might make the path I took unlikely. I dropped out of college, toiled in the service industry for 10 years, got sick of it, went to code school, got a tech job and 6 years later earn $130k. Still no degree. Is it true you can't do that there or is that just a stereotype?
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what you are claiming. You probably won't get $300k in the EU, but if you do, a greater proportion of it will go to taxes - the things you get in return, like pensions or healthcare aren't as attractive at that income level. While US healthcare is very expensive, it's a service, which means it's tied to how much you pay, and not defined as a percentage of your gross income. If you make that much money, y…
> a greater proportion of it will go to taxes Is this true? Taxes in the US are pretty high if you have a high income, and remember to include state and local taxes, and property taxes. > the things you get in return, like pensions or healthcare aren't as attractive at that income level Perhaps, but it's also attractive that _other_ _people_ get those benefits because ultimately the level of stress everyone else is u…
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#194I am sceptical. Reminds me of the predictions 20 years ago that outsourcing/offshoring would eliminate hands-on developer jobs in US/UK and other "expensive" countries. Timezones, language factors, cultural factors, retention and exclusivity challenges plus basic logistics stuff like payroll and taxes all matter a lot. None of that's insurmountable but it takes a level of effort that can be very high. And I say this…
The payroll, taxes, and labour laws are a big barrier at the moment. Even if you are happy hiring someone as an independent contractor to simplify the first two, how do you know that you aren't breaking local laws, e.g. about disguised employment? You still have to be familiar with local laws and regulations. It seems like something that an intermediary could help with, and a few do exist, although they are pricey. S…
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#195I'll happily relocate from the UK to a country that isn't sliding towards tyranny. Are there any left???
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#196Except: - no country pay like the US. Worked for silicon valley companies remotely, and made twice the money I made in France, while being 3 times cheaper than local competition. - no country have the volume of hi-level coding gig job offers the US has. - few countries even have has many interesting projects. If you want to code in Haskell or Lisp in Europe, good luck. - the USA don't care about your diploma, only wh…
That's a total bullshit, unfortunately. Everything else is correct.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#197Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#198I am sceptical. Reminds me of the predictions 20 years ago that outsourcing/offshoring would eliminate hands-on developer jobs in US/UK and other "expensive" countries. Timezones, language factors, cultural factors, retention and exclusivity challenges plus basic logistics stuff like payroll and taxes all matter a lot. None of that's insurmountable but it takes a level of effort that can be very high. And I say this…
> Reminds me of the predictions 20 years ago that outsourcing/offshoring would eliminate hands-on developer jobs in US/UK and other "expensive" countries. Well in the corporate world offshoring really is everywhere. Even Goldman Sach's, #2 office for engineers in is Bangalore.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also quality of life in Europe is much higher. US everything is bigger, but Europe wins for Food quality, cleanliness, crime & safety, holidays, design.
This kind of comparison makes no sense because whether quality of life is better in US or Europe depends on the US city/state vs European city/country you are comparing in each, as well as whether you're comparing someone of lower, lower middle, upper middle, or upper class. US upper class in a wealthy area is very different from US lower middle class in another. And the same goes for Europe.
congrats, you managed to miss the point entirely.
Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent
#200I see many people here comparing US with EU in term of wages. But for the comparation to work taxes, healthcare, education, and subsidizing several public services like transport or heating should be taken into account. Also, the comparation should take into consideration PPP. $300 000 pre-taxes in US is not 3x $100 000 after-taxes in EU. Especially if you adjust for other factors.
By my estimation, even factoring in the cost of living, medical insurance, tax differences etc, people working in the Bay area are taking home twice what an equally qualified dev would take home in say, London. If anything the contrast is even more stark across the EU
Not sure why people are still confused about this. But it seems many still don't understand it. The funniest thing is when people try to concoct some sort of fairness argument to explain this, or equally hilarious is when they try to come up with a fairness argument to condemn it.
Different markets have different prices due to differences in supply and demand in those markets. Want developer salaries to be much higher in the UK? Create an environment where a bunch of big tech companies all want to massively increase hiring there. Salaries will go up. Want developer salaries to be lower in Silicon Valley? Get most of the tech companies to leave. Salaries will go down.
One can say that ultimately the reason why Silicon Valley wages are so high is because there is a productive ecosystem that was so beneficial to the creation of tech companies that there was an explosion in demand for local tech labor. That ecosystem consists of easy access to credit and VC funding, existing networks of suppliers and vendors, existing mentorship networks for engineers and entrepreneurs, stable regulations and enforcement of contracts/property rights, together with sufficient local talent to pull off the difficult job of company creation.
London didn't have that to the same degree, and so has a lower demand for tech labor with correspondingly lower wages.