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USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

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Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#71

Post by levi-turner »

jdavis703 wrote: post #48
aidenn0 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure that an MSW is required to be a social worker in my county; not sure if it's a statewide requirement in CA.

What’s the reasoning behind this? Like librarians, firefighters and cops often serve as de-facto social workers… And sure they can’t handle the most complex cases. But a lot of times someone’s problem might boil down to something simple, like they just need shoes or a meal.

> Like librarians

Funny you should mention librarians. It is not uncommon for any role which is titled "librarian" to require a masters of library science / information science. Example job ad: https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/default/mdf/recruitment/... *

Other roles are commonly called "Information Specialist" or assorted similar titles (example: https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/default/mdf/recruitment/...).

* Picked this library at random. I'd imagine smaller cities are a bit more flexible here, but I'd still take an even money bet that anyone who is under 45 at any library at random with the formal title of "librarian" has a masters degree.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#72

Post by bklyn11201 »

sgpl wrote: post #55

I think the biggest reason why the price is so high (beyond the brand, and the fact that the government policy results in everyone getting whatever loan amount they want) is because they're contractually required to share a huge chunk of that money with 2U (the same company that bought EDx's assets). The article mentions that the old contract stated that about 60% of revenue gets shared with 2U but then there was a r…

The vast majority of elite institutions are completely unwilling to take the risks to capture 100% of the online revenue pie:

a) They are unwilling to spend lots of money on upfront content development costs without knowing future revenue.

b) They are unwilling to hire a bunch of temporary workers to help spin up new content and then re-allocate them.

c) They are unwilling to adopt (aggressive) modern marketing techniques.

d) They are unwilling to cold call.

e) They are unwilling to maintain call centers.

f) They are unwilling to spend millions on FB and Goog ads even if it has positive ROI.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#73

Post by seanmcdirmid »

wbraun wrote: post #69
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All non-thesis CS master degrees are a bit suspect. They are basically a few more courses, usually at night for professional students, but increasingly online. I'm not really sure what kind of value they add beyond looking good on a resume. Thesis masters are increasingly rare these days as American schools allow you to jump straight to a PhD program (Europe is a bit more rigid here). The other kind of Masters degree…

The MIT 5th year masters program for EECS requires a thesis and for you to find a faculty thesis advisor that is separate from your academic advisor.

Ya, I forgot that point. But it is usually one semester of classes + one semester of writing a thesis (not sure what MIT does these days, I think this is what UCLA does), which isn't the usual one year of courses + one year of thesis writing.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#74

Post by seanmcdirmid »

stagger87 wrote: post #44
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All non-thesis CS master degrees are a bit suspect. They are basically a few more courses, usually at night for professional students, but increasingly online. I'm not really sure what kind of value they add beyond looking good on a resume. Thesis masters are increasingly rare these days as American schools allow you to jump straight to a PhD program (Europe is a bit more rigid here). The other kind of Masters degree…

Why does a 5th year undergrad extension make sense but not a non-thesis masters? They are effectively the same thing right? Additional classes?

You get a lot of value out of a 4 year undergrad degree, much more than a masters. So just building on that degree immediately with more intense course work and some independent thesis project seems like a win to me. I would have loved to have had an extra year on my undergrad degree for some graduate-level courses and independent project time.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#75

Post by Axien »

woeirua wrote: post #64

The only way to effectively address the college tuition bubble is going to be for Congress to pass a law that caps the amount of student loans that someone can draw to be proportional to their expected salary over X years on a per-school, per-program basis. That would put a lot of pressure on underperforming programs and schools to produce better value for their students, either by improving outcomes, or by reducing…

Too complicated. I would make a rule that any Bachelors program costing more than 15k is ineligible for student loans. Magically those $60k programs will fall to $15k.

The reason college is so expensive is because that is what people are willing to take loans to cover.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#76

Post by Zababa »

vgeek wrote: post #5

Colleges have been quietly expanding the last 10-15 years with programs like these. They do it discreetly, sometimes with different campuses across town or simply online. From what I've seen, they may be an entirely separate school so as to not be reported on the same way (a 7% acceptance rate and high job placement rates at blue chip firms makes a difference when the major currency of universities is prestige), sinc…

We have this in France too. Prestigious schools often have a "main" program, for which you need to do a classe préparatoire and a competition. But there are also other diplomas that you can get that still have the name of the school.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#77

Post by literallyaduck »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #7

And almost all got loans backed by the US government that they won’t be able to repay and will fall on the US taxpayer to cover. Essentially USC bilked the US taxpayers out of millions, with these poor students serving as the unfortunate middlemen. Solution: make the universities have some skin the game - cover 20% of the principal on defaulted loans.

We should aggressively target universities who commit this type of fraud and seize their assets, buildings, real estate, donations and endowments to recoup the taxpayers money.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#78

Post by fifthofhisname »

zeropoint46 wrote: post #22
m0lecules wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, you have schools like (the actual) Georgia Tech offering an online MS in CS for an affordable price: https://omscs.gatech.edu/

I wish they had something like this for undergrad.

Oregon State University offers an online B.S. in Computer Science and Engineering. [0]

They also offer an accelerated course if you already have an undergrad degree (e.g. for those looking for a career change). [1]

[1] https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/online-degrees/undergraduate... [0] https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/online-degrees/undergraduate...

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#79

Post by NateEag »

InitialLastName wrote: post #61
renewiltord wrote: post #38

These degrees are worthless. The fields are worthless. And a constant ongoing propaganda campaign is waged to get people to pay for them. Helping along are an army of useful idiots who will pretend like this is academia when it is pseudoscience packaged up as a program to steal from unknowing young people. It’s time for us to publish expected income based on major and university. “God forbid someone study something f…

> The fields are worthless. You realize we're talking about social work here, right? God forbid someone help people with their work rather than find ways to lubricate an advertising delivery system at a FAANG.

Not OP, but I suspect they call the field "useless" based on the belief that social work doesn't achieve its aims, not on the grounds that the aims are bad.

Re: USC pushed a $115k online degree – graduates got low salaries, huge debts

#80

Post by ilamont »

vgeek wrote: post #5

Colleges have been quietly expanding the last 10-15 years with programs like these. They do it discreetly, sometimes with different campuses across town or simply online. From what I've seen, they may be an entirely separate school so as to not be reported on the same way (a 7% acceptance rate and high job placement rates at blue chip firms makes a difference when the major currency of universities is prestige), sinc…

Harvard Extension grad here. Even though most people taking Extension School classes are casual class-takers, the liberal arts degree programs for undergraduates and graduate students are well established (https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/10/7/extension-schoo...).

While the Extension School does offer certificate programs, it's the Harvard Business School that has really benefited IMHO. They are really pushing hard to grow them (https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/hbs-online-certificate-of-s...).

You are correct about the growth of online degrees. HES degree programs received a massive boost when online classes were offered and "professional" concentrations (business, technology) were made available at the graduate level starting about 15 years ago. The number of new degrees awarded every year has tripled as a result.

Note that the University does not allow the Extension School to award MS or MBA degrees, and there is a lot of controversy over the convoluted and demeaning designation that's used on our degrees (https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/3/9/extension-school...).

The other area in which the Harvard Extension School is well-known is its post-bacc. It's highly regarded, and people who complete the program have been admitted to top-tier medical schools across the U.S. (https://extension.harvard.edu/academics/programs/premedical-...).

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