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Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

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Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#111

Post by UncleMeat »

hwers wrote: post #48
JohnWhigham wrote: post #14

In the short term, I think it's going to be a lot harder than this article lets on, but long term, it is abundantly clear: cushy developer jobs in the US are on borrowed time. Salaries may continue to go up for a little while longer, but they will fall to reflect the rest of the world catching up with the US. And that's a scary prospect for those under 35 now. And I don't think there's a way out of it. We embrace rem…

For americans this sounds like horror but for the international perspective this sounds wonderful (and a fair readjustment for work that we always felt was no different than our american counterparts). Just pointing out the semi obvious thing that the majority who reads this will see it as fantastic news.

Yep. Every time I see a US-focused article complaining about pay adjustments when people move to new regions to work remotely I just wonder where everybody has been for all these years where their coworkers in London or Vancouver are getting paid 50% of their wage for the same work.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#112

Post by foxyv »

The demand for software developers and experts is a bottomless well right now in EVERY country. Hiring everywhere is a challenge. The problem is that software development is genuinely challenging. Training is a huge problem because programs can't keep up with the new technology. In the past 10 years there have been 3 separate revolutions in our technology stack and 2 in our project management. Everything is moving at a lightning pace.

The US doesn't really have a monopoly on global talent, we just pay the most for it wherever and whenever we can get a hold of it. We import talent at huge rates and we act as an education and training center for the world.

One thing I've seen with remote work is that wages have gone up. All of a sudden, developers that were making $60k in some sleepy town are getting hired by huge software companies for sometimes two to three times as much and they are still making less than their in-office counterparts.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#113

Post by cudgy »

0xfaded wrote: post #50
yosito wrote: post #9

Does the US have a monopoly on global talent that I'm unaware of?

The US seems to have a monopoly on the ability to pay top talent (at least in the west). At the high end of the talent pool, I don't think opening up is going to have a significant impact. We're mostly already internationally mobile or can demand competitive salaries, and a new supply of mid-tier talent will only create more capital-deploying opportunities. I'm a computer vision person with a good grasp on 3d geometr…

Other than the 3D skills, these are mostly run of the mill skills for a mathematics major. Why not train a decent math major in the 3D skills?

Now the company is losing you and they have lost 6 months of time to train a new employee. Many companies are short-sighted and unwilling to accept candidates that don’t match exact specifications to their own detriment.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#114

Post by bwb »

da39a3ee wrote: post #102
bwb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mostly about FANGs and they can do it because they make $1m plus in revenue per employee. These are senior positions so don't think this is normal. Average dev salaries are $60k to $150k in USA depending on a ton of factors. The USA also has no social safety net so it's like comparing oranges to apples when you look at parts of Asia or Europe :)

But the FAANGS have offices in Europe and pay those employees less, unless I’m mistaken. In which case you can’t argue that US has FAANGS and others don’t.

Yes, but the job market is different there as are the cost structure... it is not an equal comparison.

For example, in the USA you are looking at about 22% for taxes on an employees salary that the company pays. In Europe that can be as high as 50%.

Just one example...

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#115

Post by ndm000 »

curryst wrote: post #93
ndm000 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The North American equivalent is Latin America. I’m in consulting, and every new project has some set of near shore resources billed much lower than their North American counterparts. In most cases the only discernible difference is proficiency in English.

My experience has been different. Ive found it difficult to find senior people. Junior and mid level people abound, but there are precious few qualified seniors. I think it's the nature of the market. There isn't as much demand to outsource senior roles, so the market just doesn't produce a lot of them.

I've seen this trend as well. There's this interesting double trend of upward costs on senior resources and downward costs on junior resources.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#116

Post by GekkePrutser »

disiplus wrote: post #100
torginus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you are claiming. You probably won't get $300k in the EU, but if you do, a greater proportion of it will go to taxes - the things you get in return, like pensions or healthcare aren't as attractive at that income level. While US healthcare is very expensive, it's a service, which means it's tied to how much you pay, and not defined as a percentage of your gross income. If you make that much money, y…

at that pay level in Europe you are almost certainly not going to social healthcare because in most of them you will not get the same level of service as in private hospital and will lose more time. so u usually end up paying the healthcare and using it only in extreme circumcises. there is Switzerland where that is different.

Also here in Spain, the public healthcare system is just fine. I wouldn't use private. Public is good enough.

But it's more about peace of mind. What if I lose that high paying job? I'll suddenly be in trouble for medical fees. Or income for that matter.

That kind of security is really great to have. I wouldn't want to live in a country without it. The US has a kind of "every man for himself" attitude. It feels like it stems from the 'frontier' mindset. You can climb really high but also fall all the way down. And that's fine, to each their own. But it's not for me. I'm happy to just have enough to live comfortably and have a nice job and not have to worry too much. This is also why I'll never be an entrepreneur. I'm very happy being a salaried employee with the lower income but the rights and stability that come with it.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#117

Post by AlexAltea »

blensor wrote: post #63
AlexAltea wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I don't see how the supply/demand ratio of talent will significantly change by remote work. Companies will pick from a larger pool of people. People will pick from a larger pool of companies.

Except that developers from countries that earn on average less than their US counterparts have an incentive to work for a US company remotely but a developer from the US does not have many incentives to work for less for a company abroad

There's many other companies abroad capable of offering compensations that can compete with the US.

Anecdotal, but plenty of contacts who would have never accepted an on-site position in UAE, Hong Kong, Germany (for reasons ranging from personal, political, or just sheer affordability), and are now contracting as individuals at companies based in such regions, for substantially above the Bay Area average for their experience.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#118

Post by _abox »

eb0la wrote: post #85
GekkePrutser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, I find the quality of life in Spain preferable. We have a government health system paid through taxes, no guns on the streets, not much pollution, amazing public transport, 4 weeks holidays and good weather. I prefer having those things as a safety net instead of having to pay for them myself. I really love not needing a car here at all, I haven't driven in years. I was recently offered a job in silicon valley…

Where do you live? If you have kids in Madrid it is almost mandatory to have a car. Imho the best place to live in Spain is in a 'capital de provicia': you have all the services the law mandates but it is not crowded.

I live in Barcelona city but I have no kids. I often see whole school classes on the metro though, going on school trips. I think the metro is just fine for them.

Also, walking everywhere is really feasible. I stopped using the metro for everything due to Corona. Though I picked it up again after getting the vaccine, I still retained the habit of walking. Barcelona is nice and compact, I can walk everywhere within an hour or so. Not sure about Madrid, I've only visited.

If I had a car I wouldn't even know where to leave it to be honest. In my area there's no parking available except some highly expensive garages.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#119

Post by GekkePrutser »

qaq wrote: post #47
GekkePrutser wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, I find the quality of life in Spain preferable. We have a government health system paid through taxes, no guns on the streets, not much pollution, amazing public transport, 4 weeks holidays and good weather. I prefer having those things as a safety net instead of having to pay for them myself. I really love not needing a car here at all, I haven't driven in years. I was recently offered a job in silicon valley…

I think you are really onto something truth is if you have 100K remote job in Spain you will hav better lifestyle than having 300K job in SV. If I only could convince my wife to move :(.

I'm nowhere near 100K in Spain but I wouldn't make 300K in that job in SV either :)

I think it would work out worse in SV though in terms of spending power. With the exception of tech toys which tend to be around the same price everywhere so relatively expensive in Spain.

But I'd give up a lot. Being half a world away from family and also the other drawbacks I mentioned. No, I'm fine here.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#120

Post by GekkePrutser »

nly wrote: post #94
DeathArrow wrote: post #76

I see many people here comparing US with EU in term of wages. But for the comparation to work taxes, healthcare, education, and subsidizing several public services like transport or heating should be taken into account. Also, the comparation should take into consideration PPP. $300 000 pre-taxes in US is not 3x $100 000 after-taxes in EU. Especially if you adjust for other factors.

By my estimation, even factoring in the cost of living, medical insurance, tax differences etc, people working in the Bay area are taking home twice what an equally qualified dev would take home in say, London. If anything the contrast is even more stark across the EU

They also seem to work very long hours with long commutes and get few vacations. When I see that the average cost of a house in Cupertino is 2.5 million dollars for example, I would imagine most of those Apple engineers live far away.
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