Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#31

Post by chaosite » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #25

adewinter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The building has not yet been built.

The building is apparently in the same mould as a highly-rated[1] one already in use at the University of Michigan. The people (graduate students?) who live there seem to like it more than any other campus housing option. [1]: https://www.veryapt.com/Apartments-L7646-ann-arbor-central-c...

It is not in the same mould at all. Reposting my previous comment:

OK, I found an article with a floorplan[1]. This thing is not at all comparable to the Michigan dorms. Recall, in the Michigan dorms you have an apartment housing 7 people with a spacious, well-lit living room (6 windows, but the count isn't important.) Sure, you don't have a window in your bedroom, and that sucks, but to see the sun you just go through that one door.

But in this proposed building? Look at that insane floor plan[2]! It looks like a maze! If you're in one of those inner rooms, you exit your bedroom (no windows) into your apartment's common area (no windows), exit that to a long corridor that eventually leads to your "House's" common area, which finally has windows. But is the opposite way from the building's exit.

Yeah this thing is insane.

[1] https://www.dezeen.com/2021/11/02/architect-resigns-grotesqu... [2] https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2021/11/munger-hall-univer...

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#32

Post by mitchdoogle » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

hindsightbias wrote: post #27

rtkwe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.

If we’re going to need people to populate austere environments lile Mars, we’re going to need people used to living without windows. Works for the Navy.

Mars? That's your best argument? We're on Earth, so let's design for Earth.

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#33

Post by rtkwe » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

shwoopdiwoop wrote: post #17

rtkwe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.

Except all the outrage came from people who never lived in his buildings, and the ones who did gave it overwhelmingly great reviews.

Are you talking about the U of Michigan graduate dorms? Those seem like a vastly different design and people have some thoughts on the whole windowless thing from COVID when they couldn't use the suite's common area.

For starters the units are much smaller and each suite of rooms has it's own little semi-public area instead of being a completely windowless block like his new design. The difference between the two is vast.

https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2021/11/03/heres-what-its-like-...

https://i.redd.it/81yfb7wkxby51.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cfVWiAxSU

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#34

Post by mitchdoogle » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

shwoopdiwoop wrote: post #17

rtkwe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.

Except all the outrage came from people who never lived in his buildings, and the ones who did gave it overwhelmingly great reviews.

The reviews I saw all painted the lack if windows as a major negative. Something worth tolerating because of the building's central location. The residents who had to stay there during the pandemic, when communal areas were not so utilized, were even more critical, describing it as "depressing"

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#35

Post by withinboredom » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

mjb wrote: post #13

This is a very powerful way of thinking, and one I use often when thinking about things like career direction and personal life. I think I also learned it from Charlie Mungers book, but I don't recall clearly. However, it does have two downsides as a way of engineering thinking that is worth being aware of: completely enumerating badness is hard, and the solution space might be much sparser than the problem space. Sa…

Lamport also created TLA+, which will happily tell you what and where your algorithm is broken, assuming you model it. So the speed of iteration will be greatly increased.

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#36

Post by CalChris » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #25

adewinter wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The building has not yet been built.

The building is apparently in the same mould as a highly-rated[1] one already in use at the University of Michigan. The people (graduate students?) who live there seem to like it more than any other campus housing option. [1]: https://www.veryapt.com/Apartments-L7646-ann-arbor-central-c...

The Munger Graduate Residences do not have a CostCo for a penthouse.

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#37

Post by nostromo » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #14

g_sch wrote: post #12

It took a second for me to make this connection, but the Charlie Munger in this article is the same Charlie Munger who designed that windowless dorm at UCSB that made the news a few days back. [0] I wonder if he applied the same principles to designing that building. [0] https://www.independent.com/2021/10/28/architect-resigns-in-...

Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.

It looks like it was designed in Prison Architect.

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#38

Post by mattnewton » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

hindsightbias wrote: post #27

rtkwe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.

If we’re going to need people to populate austere environments lile Mars, we’re going to need people used to living without windows. Works for the Navy.

The navy pays people to live like that; the university is charging people. Not sure this is comparable.

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#39

Post by dangerwill » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

hindsightbias wrote: post #27

rtkwe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it seems he forgot to invert the question of "How would I design an absolutely depressing and dangerous place to live?" then came up with that design.

If we’re going to need people to populate austere environments lile Mars, we’re going to need people used to living without windows. Works for the Navy.

How about you trial this first and then come back to us? Might find that there is a reason for shore leave in the Navy

Re: Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots (2020)

#40

Post by xyzelement » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

g_sch wrote: post #12

It took a second for me to make this connection, but the Charlie Munger in this article is the same Charlie Munger who designed that windowless dorm at UCSB that made the news a few days back. [0] I wonder if he applied the same principles to designing that building. [0] https://www.independent.com/2021/10/28/architect-resigns-in-...

From what I see in responses to you, Munger has designed other well-received dorms in the past so that gives him credibility on this topic. It doesn't mean he's right but it's a good chance his thinking is more nuanced than those shitting on it - especially coupled with the current article that describes how he thinks.

This is total conjecture but I can imagine him doing something like this: Question: how do you make students the most miserable? Answer: create a dorm that discourages social interaction, and is far from classes and amenities.

Starting from that, you do the opposite: create a large, centrally located dorm where the design discourages sitting in your room and encourages use of shared spaces while benefiting from greater density and central location.

If the question is "are windowless rooms good?" the answer is "no." If the question is "are we willing to sacrifice bedroom windows so that we have grater communal life and better walkability" the answer is probably "yes, possibly."

Logically it's the same argument for why some people prefer to live in small city apartments when they could live in a much larger home elsewhere for the same price. The very nature of city real estate is tied to the nature of city life (both as a cause as an affect) and it's simply a tradeoff. Asked on its own "do you want a cramped apartment" the answer is always "no" yet people often opt for it in context.