91–100 of 534 posts
This is a bit off topic, but wrt working for an US company - US programming salaries are weird - it used to be a decade ago, that programming salaries were roughly in line with other domains in engineering, while most places required a STEM degree as well, meaning both engineering and CS employed roughly the same talent pool at similar wages. Imo, this estimation still holds in the rest of the world, but CS salaries…
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Agreed, but if you read down the list the author notes in that list Panama, Croatia, which while beautiful and stable in some ways... are also knows for corruption and other issues. The USA is very affordable if you look outside of SF/NY and compare it to Western Europe (esp with tech pay). What are you comparing it too?
It's certainly affordable with tech pay - but... that's the point of the article isn't it? Tech pay is sky high because US is overvaluing US talent. Most millennials in the US cannot afford to buy a home here. Agreed Panama is a bad example, but not Croatia - it's politically stable, and I don't believe many people leave because of corruption.
The average salary of a millenial is $47k a year, average millennial household makes $71k. The average mortgage payment in the USA is $1,487 ($18k over a year). So 25% to 38% of salary right? I think I did that right but feel free to clarify. Seems doable right?
I think the USA is a mess, especially for millennials but when you look at the housing market in Europe for average salaries we are doing really well overall: https://www.statista.com/statistics/237529/price-to-income-r...
Very few people immigrate from anywhere. It is very hard. I don't think people leave because of corruption, my point being they have higher levels than the USA: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/nzl
From my personal experience I think that the most challenging factor with outsourcing is in fact the time zone. Being situated in Germany I see many webdev jobs being outsourced about 1 hour to the east and about all the way down to South Africa and Mauritius („Cyber Island”). This are the projects that work like normal. Then of course the vast majority is outsourced to contractors in India or China – but frankly com…
The North American equivalent is Latin America. I’m in consulting, and every new project has some set of near shore resources billed much lower than their North American counterparts. In most cases the only discernible difference is proficiency in English.
I think it's the nature of the market. There isn't as much demand to outsource senior roles, so the market just doesn't produce a lot of them.
I see many people here comparing US with EU in term of wages. But for the comparation to work taxes, healthcare, education, and subsidizing several public services like transport or heating should be taken into account. Also, the comparation should take into consideration PPP. $300 000 pre-taxes in US is not 3x $100 000 after-taxes in EU. Especially if you adjust for other factors.
If anything the contrast is even more stark across the EU
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Except that developers from countries that earn on average less than their US counterparts have an incentive to work for a US company remotely but a developer from the US does not have many incentives to work for less for a company abroad
The politicians will fight back with work visas and limits etc. protecting domestic work forces should be a primary concern for politicians.
I see many people here comparing US with EU in term of wages. But for the comparation to work taxes, healthcare, education, and subsidizing several public services like transport or heating should be taken into account. Also, the comparation should take into consideration PPP. $300 000 pre-taxes in US is not 3x $100 000 after-taxes in EU. Especially if you adjust for other factors.
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There are plenty of labor sourcing companies who will happily do all the paperwork (and take on the legal risk) for you to hire someone in a foreign country, but in fact you pay the labor company some fixed hourly rate, and they hire the worker as an employee. It's a good model, because then when the laws of the foreign country change to say "Women's average salaries must match mens" or "Workers shall be paid 2x rate…
> All those cases can be dealt with by the foreign company who knows the local laws and customs. I haven't seen it mentioned here but while in many cases you can as an employer outsource payroll and labor law compliance, you can never completely shed the potential liabilities that come with employing someone and this can get complicated when your workforce is based in different countries. There are a lot of things th…
The local firm is the one who technically employs the worker and takes on all these risks.
At any point, you can stop buying more code, and the local firm will have to face the consequences.
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Very fair salary, especially when you take into account they have real health care, real social safty nets, etc.
Again, you’re patronizing people outside the US telling them that they should be happy with lower salary. US tech workers have their healthcare paid in addition to their high compensation. Someone earning 120k in London might earn $350k in the US. It’s not up to you to tell the little Europeans that they shouldn’t want their missing $230k because their healthcare and public services make up for it.
You are paid based on a mix of skills, taxes, other costs, job market, and where you live. Pay is not some absolute, it has a lot of factors (many I didn't mention). The ultimate question is are you happy with your pay and is it fair? Done :)
There isn't some magical number out there and anything lower than that means someone isn't being fair to you.
In the short term, I think it's going to be a lot harder than this article lets on, but long term, it is abundantly clear: cushy developer jobs in the US are on borrowed time. Salaries may continue to go up for a little while longer, but they will fall to reflect the rest of the world catching up with the US. And that's a scary prospect for those under 35 now. And I don't think there's a way out of it. We embrace rem…
I see many people here comparing US with EU in term of wages. But for the comparation to work taxes, healthcare, education, and subsidizing several public services like transport or heating should be taken into account. Also, the comparation should take into consideration PPP. $300 000 pre-taxes in US is not 3x $100 000 after-taxes in EU. Especially if you adjust for other factors.
I'm not sure what you are claiming. You probably won't get $300k in the EU, but if you do, a greater proportion of it will go to taxes - the things you get in return, like pensions or healthcare aren't as attractive at that income level. While US healthcare is very expensive, it's a service, which means it's tied to how much you pay, and not defined as a percentage of your gross income. If you make that much money, y…