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NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

erickhun.com

171–180 of 264 posts

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I understand it: Baseball cards sell for millions of dollars. Do those cards provide ownership to anything or anyone? No. Are they signed by the original players? No. Do they give you any other benefit? No. It's just collector items that refers to something, and there is a limited amount of them. But that's basically it. Now you could argue that you can hold a card in your hand, and an NFT not. But that i…

With an NFT you own a token with a link to a resource, but the perception is that you own an actual artwork. Think is, the artwork (e.g. a jpg) can be copied an infinite amount of times. So the baseball card analogy falls short, at least as far as the posession of an actual item.

The baseball card also doesn't give you ownership of the baseball player, or over the photograph or stats of that player.

You can copy the photograph and stats as much as you want (the player not so much ;)), but the card still stays the card.

So conceptually: the NFT doesn't refer to the baseball card, it is the baseball card. Baseball card refers to something real, but doesn't take ownership of that thing. NFT refers to something real, but doesn't take ownership of that thing.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But a hash is so easy to compute and store that there's really no excuse for not including one.

I don’t understand. What purpose does the hash provide?

The NFT is a pointer to content (pointed by a URL). If the underlying content at that URL changes, the assumptions about the original NFT minting / first transaction change.

Bundling a cryptographic hash with the original NFT assertion of content accurately describes the content the NFT was intended to be minted for.

Example analogy: an NFT is like a receipt for a baseball card signed by a player. If the NFT is minted when the URL to the content points to a baseball card for Player A (popular player rookie card), but someone hijacks the domain or the URL and changes the content of that URL to Player B (no-name player who only lasted half a season in the pro league), that hijacker has performed a misrepresentation/fraud. The hash doesn't prevent the content swap, but it provides assurance that the content still matches the original intent of the NFT minting.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#173
post #78

Funny to see this "epiphany" just now. Maybe one solution would be to store files on bittorrent and Blockchain pointing to a bittorrent link ? There are already multiple webclients for bt, this would not be an issue. Reliability would "just" depend on the number of peers

Website, BitTorrent, IPFS, etc all have the possibility for bit rot.

There is, however, incentive for the person who currently owns the NFT to maintain the content at the current URL or their investment would suffer a loss of value.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#174
post #97

What happens when the domain in the tokenURI expires? Or when the HTTPS certificate expires? Or when the server gets hacked? Or the server changes owners? Or the server operator just decides to abscond? Etc... this is complete nonsense.

Caveat emptor. This is no different from due diligence when making any other form of investment.

Observation: there is an incentive for the buyer to maintain the content (or perhaps even to replace with higher value content) at the URL. Perhaps NFT owners can band together to form a co-op / condo association if an NFT-content host site/domain goes down to maintain it. The next set of features I keep reading about in cryptocurrency/NFT space is "governance", which could cover this type of responsibility.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#175
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have to have some odd local definition of ownership you’ve already lost and know it! Compare it to physical art. If you buy physical art you take control of the object and can do what you like with it including keeping it locked up in a customs warehouse. If you buy a token you own the token not anything it points to. You can do what you like with the token but not what it points to. You own a link.

The stuff you describe about physical art is only valid within a jurisdiction that has legislated ownership of physical items. You can very well take control of an object without owning it and lock it up in a custom warehouse. You can be custodian of it if the legal framework allows for that, it still can be yours of someone takes ot from you physically. Depending on the jurisdiction, it is possible that despite you…

> The stuff you describe about physical art is only valid within a jurisdiction that has legislated ownership of physical items.

I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure jurisdictions that don't have that legislation are vanishingly rare. Maybe North Korea?

NFTs piggy-back off the legislation of developed countries. All of those defend ownership of physical goods.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#176
post #6

The only real future for NFT's is a coupling with the physical world. Like buying physical art. Or proofing ownership of an asset like houses.

I have not seen any compelling project successfully bridge analog world content with digital signatures for blockchain purposes. These things always seem to require some trusted party like a government to support them.

That said, I suspect something along these lines may some day be the "killer app" that NFTs/smart contracts need but are currently missing. The scarcity of atoms combined with the public, immutable digital records on a blockchain ledger. Too bad we are 12+ years into the blockchain and I've yet to see a compelling use case.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#177

I believe it really boils down to consensus. If enough entities in a community "accepts" some platform/publisher as valid, those collectibles created by those entities (which can easily be validated on the chain) will have subjective value. Just like money: it's a piece of paper but enough people/companies/governments legally accept it so that paper now has a value more than it's physical components. I can print mone…

Consensus needs realistic price evaluations otherwise NFTs and most of crypto will remain what it actually is: a pump and dump asset class.

Currently the "value" is determined by hype and speculation. The more NFT (or whatever replaces that idealogically) is accepted into the society, the more "real" uses it will have and whatever real (non-pump-and-dump-JPEGs) use it has will stabilize its value when the hype ends.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#178

Why misconception? NFT = proof of ownership

The point is "proof of ownership" of what.

The misconception seems to be that people think the owned content is inlined in the blockchain, when it more often is a URL in the NFT / on the blockchain. Hence, the proof of ownership is contextual around what content existed at the URL at the time of minting, which might change if the controller of the URL changes the content after minting.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they are the new baseball cards.

Baseball cards used to come with a purchase of a real product. They were an incentive to buy actual things. People collect them now, but they didn't exist on their own back then initially.

What did you buy to get a baseball card? I figured they were sold in packs, much like Pokemon cards are sold today.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#180
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stuff you describe about physical art is only valid within a jurisdiction that has legislated ownership of physical items. You can very well take control of an object without owning it and lock it up in a custom warehouse. You can be custodian of it if the legal framework allows for that, it still can be yours of someone takes ot from you physically. Depending on the jurisdiction, it is possible that despite you…

> The stuff you describe about physical art is only valid within a jurisdiction that has legislated ownership of physical items. I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure jurisdictions that don't have that legislation are vanishingly rare. Maybe North Korea? NFTs piggy-back off the legislation of developed countries. All of those defend ownership of physical goods.

The point is that ownership is a made up concept, albeit a popular one.

Also, it’s very complex and definitely not a clear cut. For example, you can’t simply process the plastic disk you bought, called Music CD, and share the output with everyone, you can get into real trouble.

You can buy a plane ticket but whether you can give it back varies and you can almost never sell it, despite owning it.

You can own one aspect of something and not the other, for example you can own the right to make toys from a character but not the rights to make a movie.

You can own a Databese in Europe but can’t own it in US. You can own software patents in US but not on the Europe.

You can buy a very old house in central London but you can’t demolish it just like that and build something else.

In some places men can own women, in other places white colored people used to own dark colored people.

In some places you are allowed to rent your body for certain purposes or inject whatever you want to yourself, in other places you can’t do a lot of thing to yourself.

Also, the way you acquire your possessions is not a clear cut. Purchase is a common one but you can get things by participating or organizing mass murder, a common practice known as “war”.

You can also acquire things through inheritance, a popular option but not a clear cut too because the inheritance rules can change depending on your gender, age, race, nationality and the jurisdiction.

You can own a Gmail or HN account that you never bought and can be taken away at any time.

As you can see, ownership is a complicated concept. You can’t really pin down a property of ownership and say this is the test to determine if you own it or not.

NFT is just another complication but this time enabled through international computer networks(traditional communities would create registers and institutions to deal with ownership management).

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