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Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

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Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#61

Post by ccakes »

loxias wrote: post #54
Otek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

personal bias: i've been using vscode for about 4 years > I couldn't type more than a few lines before the high latency, and the fact that I could feel my CPU heating up, gave me all the info I needed. Consider that you must be doing something deeply wrong? I have a MacBook Pro (2015) i7, 4 cores, 16GB of ram, and VS Code is quite fast.

I'll take that bet! Keep in mind I said "when it came out". I don't know when that was, and maybe it's improved. A bit. That being said, the fact that VS Code isn't a native application, but something run as a local web app, is all the info you need. (no idea how it's gonna grab the keybindings it's gonna need if it's in a web browser... and the fact that it burns CPU on blinking the cursor isn't exactly a sign of Qu…

As a fellow emacs user, I have to say that you're wrong and the "non-native apps are trash" attitude isn't super productive.

I do mostly backend development in a few languages, all using emacs, but will bust out VS Code when I need to browse a web codebase for whatever reason. It's a very performant application. It can grab all the keybinds it needs and my install with a handful of addons doesn't burn CPU doing nothing and is just as snappy as emacs.

Happy to discuss the pros of emacs but your cons list for VS Code is in part wildly outdated and in part flat out untrue.

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#62

Post by loxias »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #57
kangaroopouch wrote: post #9

> But are there any other reasons, technical or otherwise, why people don't seem to use VSCode for things beyond editing code? The best answer I've seen to this question is https://www.murilopereira.com/the-values-of-emacs-the-neovim... Amongst other things, it lists different values that each tool prioritizes, and how "Core values are self-reinforcing. They attract like-minded people, who will then defend them." Ema…

I started out with VSCode hoping it would be an easier, more modern Emacs. Calva was the closest thing to a good experience I could get. Now I am switching to Emacs for CIDER and generally the Emacs ecosystem. I doubt I'll ever not use vim when I'm working/thinking in systems mode, though. The thought of waiting for a "real" editor to launch when I just want to edit a tiny unstructured file is a sad one to me.

> The thought of waiting for a "real" editor to launch when I just want to edit a tiny unstructured file is a sad one to me.

Amen to that. That's why I use emacs. ;) Just timed it myself, started and ready to go in 120ms. Pretty sure we can shave more time off that.

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#63

Post by spacemanmatt »

alkonaut wrote: post #39
saurik wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people like customizing the heck out of their editor, getting super deep into metaprogramming and macros. You will hopefully be programming for decades: I have been programming already for three decades and I expect I will be programming for another two before my mind gives out (if I am lucky, I might get another four). Customize your tools: they are yours, and being able to continue using and improving your w…

> Customize your tools: they are yours, and being able to continue using and improving your workflow over time isn't a distraction if you are in this for the long haul. I have programmed for 20 years professionally (and a few more). I have the exact opposite approach. I don't even learn ketyboard shortcuts, would never customize my environment even a little (like moving a tool window around in an IDE) because it just…

I don't really believe in 10x programmers but I do believe in 1x programmers, and I do believe that many tool defaults conspire to make everyone a 0.1x programmer. Nothing works that great out of the box.

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#64

Post by vivab0rg »

approxim8ion wrote: post #53
alfiedotwtf wrote: post #37

Long term risk management! 99% of my time in front of the computer is spent in an editor (for both work and play). Having invested and continuing to invest so much time and effort in my tools and my environment, I would hate for something so fundamental in my life to not be free as in freedom: "Microsoft's releases of Visual Studio Code are licensed under this not-FLOSS license and contain telemetry/tracking" https:/…

Which is why I use vscodium.

Noting that the point it not just avoiding telemetry, but actually having a tool as indispensable as your text editor not at the mercy of Microsoft whims.

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#65

Post by archeroe »

approxim8ion wrote: post #53
alfiedotwtf wrote: post #37

Long term risk management! 99% of my time in front of the computer is spent in an editor (for both work and play). Having invested and continuing to invest so much time and effort in my tools and my environment, I would hate for something so fundamental in my life to not be free as in freedom: "Microsoft's releases of Visual Studio Code are licensed under this not-FLOSS license and contain telemetry/tracking" https:/…

Which is why I use vscodium.

It's better than using the MS builds but the SSH remote extension, python's new LSP ( Pylance ) and certainly few other plugins beside being close source don't even work with the open source builds of Vscode. ( + You don't have access to bunch of plugins if you don't manually edit your config to use Microsoft's store, which maybe against its licensing ).

If tomorrow Microsoft decided that some new versions of essential extensions should follow the same path VsCodium would basically become useless, I wouldn't trust Microsoft that easily.

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#66

Post by gpderetta »

loxias wrote: post #54
Otek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

personal bias: i've been using vscode for about 4 years > I couldn't type more than a few lines before the high latency, and the fact that I could feel my CPU heating up, gave me all the info I needed. Consider that you must be doing something deeply wrong? I have a MacBook Pro (2015) i7, 4 cores, 16GB of ram, and VS Code is quite fast.

I'll take that bet! Keep in mind I said "when it came out". I don't know when that was, and maybe it's improved. A bit. That being said, the fact that VS Code isn't a native application, but something run as a local web app, is all the info you need. (no idea how it's gonna grab the keybindings it's gonna need if it's in a web browser... and the fact that it burns CPU on blinking the cursor isn't exactly a sign of Qu…

(Also an emacs user for 20 years and counting).

For the most part emacs is also not native: most of emacs is written in elisp, which only got a compiler very recently and it is very likely still nowhere as good as as the V8 jit.

I understand that as most electron applications VSCode was very slow and bloated initially, but these days people say is quite snappy (I wouldn't know, I never used it).

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#67

Post by gpderetta »

bjackman wrote: post #31

Data point: I've been using Emacs for about 5 hears. I've got a setup that works very well for me but every time I open my .emacs I hate Emacs lisp even more. Decided to give VSCode a go, my take is: - It's really slow (noticable keyboard latency) and this bums me out. - Haven't yet got into a proper VSCode git plugin but I'm pretty sure when I do I'll still miss Magit. - The only place where I really miss Emacs' ult…

What's wrong with elisp? I'm far from being a lisp fan, but as an extension language it seems perfectly adequate for emacs.

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#68

Post by thom »

Not sure what it would mean for VSCode to be the new Emacs. I assume it already has a larger user base and almost as rich a package ecosystem. The question for me is, will useful development of Emacs modes cease in the future? And will that energy be focused on VSCode instead? I think there’s a chance of that. But ultimately a lot of people who like Emacs don’t like VSCode. I personally think VSCode has chosen the wrong level of abstraction for the API it exposes to extensions, and I think its community doesn’t value UIs that are primarily text based. There are things in VSCode that I hate that can’t ever be fixed. That’s not true in Emacs. It’s always surprising to me when people complain about keybindings for example, when they have complete control over them. I’m also baffled by anyone who thinks VSCode has better documentation than what’s built into Emacs and each of its modes. I’ll be sad if I ever have to abandon it, anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#69

Post by gpderetta »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #44
nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #6

Of course. VS Code is just a Chrome browser with a bunch of scripts bundled.

Where scripts includes anything you can compile to wasm. That enables a lot of interesting stuff. Including, say, compiling some lisp to wasm to e.g. retrofit some emacs stuff via a vs code extension. Probably a bit redundant but it would not surprise me to see some code sharing long term between the two ecosystems via wasm.

As far as I understand, VSCode extensions do not have the level of unfiltered low level access to the internals of the editor. In emacs there isn't really a difference between extensions and core features. It is just all code running in a lisp vm (and it is also the reason I'm sceptical about having other extension languages in emacs).

Re: Ask HN: Could VSCode be the new Emacs?

#70

Post by eb0la »

I am almost in love with VSCode, but my workflow in never done 100% on it.

I usually start working on VSCode, but I run test from the terminal (python and solidity), and half of my git commits are from the command line.

When a test breaks, I usually use vim to fix it since I am already on the terminal.

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