The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down • Hacker News Board

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#501

Post by tlamponi » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

newby wrote: post #447

tlamponi wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, the speed at which an ebike motor may assist one is limited to 25 km/h (~ 15.5 mph): > pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having > a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor > is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally > cut off before the vehicle speed…

It is way too easy to remove that limitation. At least in the Czech Republic where I live it is common and it is one of the reasons I have love-hate relationship with e-bikes. I love the idea of e-bikes replacing cars to commute but they are also causing some kind of eternal September in biking. Suddenly there are multitudes of e-bikers without technical skills passing you dangerously fast on trails that were previou…

Mountain e-bikes are an entire different kind of beast and living in the alps I agree with your observation of more unskilled and untrained people getting on trails that are a bit over their head, but that already happened here when some regions opened their cable cars for (mountain) biker, e.g., ski areas in the summer.

The current regulation seems Ok to me in the sense of, its simple, and it prevents most of the danger by default and the alternative would probably be to ban ebikes completely (as any hack-prevention will be circumvented sooner or later), which well would be rather counterproductive and people get hurt in cars too, so we'd need to ban almost everything..

I'd rather see some effort in educating people on bike safety in schools. We already had a bike driver licence test in elementary, while it wasn't legally binding it had some educational value, ebikes just weren't a thing there so nothing was thought about them.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#502

Post by bambax » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:34 AM UTC

SavantIdiot wrote: post #156

asdff wrote: post #122

The biggest hurdles with ebikes are their high cost relative to a cheap used bike (nicer ebikes are in used car territory) and likelyhood of theft in an urban area. It would probably help a lot of commutes if people had a safe place to park their bike or ebike at a train station or business or school where it won't be stripped down for parts. Rental scooters and ebikes also suffer from this problem but it doesn't mat…

I'm blown away by how expensive they are and then how many I see. $5k-$7k for an e-bicycle? Yes yes yes, I realize enthusiasts pay up to $10-15K for high-end frames and wheels, with full Campy gruppos[1], but eBike buyer's aren't CAT-2 qualifiers. On a side rant, the price of bikes in general has skyrockted. With so much of the manufacturing happening in China, I would have assumed that the overall costs of bikes wou…

In Europe you find excellent normal bikes for about €300; you can also find them used, for less.

Then you can convert those to ebikes with kits that cost €500-800 depending on power of motor and range of battery.

That's what I did; I transformed a regular Btwin Rockrider bike to an ebike 3 years ago, and have now ridden about 10k km with it. Couldn't be happier. It changed my life.

I used to drive a (big) motorbike; it's now been a year since I used it; it just doesn't make any sense to use a motorbike instead of an ebike for rides under 15 km, which are most if not all rides.

I built a second ebike for travel by train. Some trains have special "seats" for bikes but most don't, and they are in very limited supply anyway. But you can put a folding bike in the luggage compartment without a problem.

So I bought a used folding bike for €50, still in excellent condition, added a (low power) hub motor and a battery for €400, and I can go almost anywhere without worrying about finding a cab at my destination. It's exhilarating.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#503

Post by bambax » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:37 AM UTC

criddell wrote: post #51

zwieback wrote: post #26

I'm a year-round non-e-bike commuter in Oregon. I love e-bikes but until you can ride without getting soaked it'll be successful only part of the year in most of the US. We need something between the e-bike and golf-cart style EVs to fill the gap, some kind of sophisticated fairing or a 3 wheel format that isn't super dorky.

> until you can ride without getting soaked it'll be successful only part of the year in most of the US I'm in Austin, TX and get soaked for a different reason - sweat. We get about 3 months of 100 degree days. I'd love a golf-cart EV with good A/C.

You sweat a lot less (if at all) on an ebike though.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#504

Post by Symbiote » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:38 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #441

mcny wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

» What it took was a focus on good quality bike lanes outside the affluent white neighborhoods, bike accessibility at transit stations/on busses, and expansion of bikeshare to poorer neighborhoods. I've never been to Chattanooga, TN but once I realized I can work from home I've been curious about owning a home somewhere with gigabit fiber but without ridiculously expensive real estate within commuting distance to a C…

TN is a tax haven state. You're not going to get polished municipal services and infrastructure. Western New York has cheap housing and older, 150+ year old urbanization that doesn't suffer as much from 20th century shortsightedness.

How are sidewalks "polish"?

In most of the world, they're the default thing - before a roadway suitable for cars, before piped water, before sewers, before electricity.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#505

Post by bambax » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:39 AM UTC

osigurdson wrote: post #402

I am amazed by what they have been able to do with e-mountain bikes. The battery and motor are barely discernible anymore. Not for me as I prefer to pedal but impressive nonetheless. https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/s-works-turbo-kenevo-sl/p/...

That is indeed magnificent, but... $20k??!?

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#506

Post by bambax » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

foepys wrote: post #427

osigurdson wrote: post #402

I am amazed by what they have been able to do with e-mountain bikes. The battery and motor are barely discernible anymore. Not for me as I prefer to pedal but impressive nonetheless. https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/s-works-turbo-kenevo-sl/p/...

Meanwhile forest rangers and other land owners are extremely angry because now even more people carve lines into delicate forest grounds. Even in places the mountain bikers couldn't have reached before.

At $20k apiece I don't think there are a lot of these around...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#507

Post by pmontra » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #101

paiute wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

only because we have brain dead laws on e bikes. why not 24.5 mph? I see actual electric motorcycles on our bike paths all the time, I have never seen them cause a real problem. People on normal bikes cause all the problems because they have so much invested in their current speed.

Because kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity, and 25mph is 56% more energy which is a huge problem in a collision with a pedestrian or a crash. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain... It's also a big issue with response time and with the rate pedestrians expect bicycles to be travelling. You shouldn't bike on the sidewalk because no one is looking for vehicles going more th…

This matches my experience on shared pedestrian / bicycles low density roads in countryside. 30 km/h (a little less than 20 mph) is the limit between okish and dangerous. Actually pedestrians start to worry a little before that speed but of course half of them don't see the bicycle approaching. The cyclist see them a long time before overtaking and assesses whether they are safe to pass or require a slow down.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#508

Post by blunte » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:45 AM UTC

snovv_crash wrote: post #428

blunte wrote: post #268

Not a criticism of e-bikes, but I discovered an unexpected danger related to e-bikes which was much less an issue with traditional bikes: when driving a car, it's now much more difficult to judge how much time you need to pass a bike. I would say without hyperbole that it's much more dangerous now, to the cars and the bikes. I currently live in a Dutch village, so bikes and cars share rather narrow roads. The roads a…

If you're used to (slow, heavy) Dutch style bikes, 12-15 km/h is reasonable. However any "road" bike (rather than commuter bike) can easily go 25+km/h on flat ground. 45km/h is not unusual of for racers. Of course, these are easier to spot than ebikes...

Exactly. I can spot the road bike from a distance and already assume the longer passing time.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#509

Post by baq » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:45 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #417

forgotmyoldname wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Americans are morbidly afraid of their children being away from adult supervision for more than a minute. I think suggesting 10 year olds ride a bike instead of taking a car or bus might infuriate more than a few people.

I remember discussion on reddit where people literally called mom neglectful because she refused to have car. The issue was that she and 4 years old walked 20minutes to preschool and back. That is it, 40 min total walking time was assumed to be beyond 4 years old capabilities.

maybe it was, for their 4 year olds... which is a sad thought.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#510

Post by baq » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

mpalczewski wrote: post #237

emodendroket wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another obvious point, I think, is that, no matter how much you like driving, crawling on the highway at rush hour is not the least bit enjoyable.

I didn't mind it, but I had a plush, quiet, comfortable car with an excellent sound system and that cruise control system that follows the car ahead of you. Would listen to music, a podcast, audiobook, or just enjoy some quiet solitude, all climate controlled. Some cars even have massaging seats now.

gets old quick when you've got a school run to do and not just sit back and relax.