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Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

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Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#31

Post by ComputerGuru »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #30
ComputerGuru wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's doable - BUT not the way they're marketing it. As a pure gadget and not a PC, it's very possible. Take out the touch screen, add a keyboard, use ARM instead of x86, and you're all set. I blogged about it in detail here: http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/what-the-techcrunch-tablet-sho...

A keyboard for this kind of device would be stupid. If that's what you're after, just get an Eee. And browsing the web without a touchscreen or some kind of pointing device would be a horrible experience. They've got the concept nailed for the most part...now the challenging is building it for that price.

How do you propose that one types an email? Enters a web address? Go it iPhone style?!

And why would you need a touchscreen to browse the web? The only things you would do on a website are enter the address, scroll, type into forms, and click a link. A touchscreen only addresses the very last of these, while a keyboard deals with all of them. A button on the side of the screen - or a vertical touchpad even - would easily solve the button problem.

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#32

Post by cubrilovic »

gstar wrote: post #24
mechanical_fish wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. We don't know yet what their screen is or what it cost them. In fact, that information wouldn't be useful anyway: I'm guessing that Michael Arrington might well be able to get one model of any screen he wants for well under $200. But once he's got that screen designed into his product and is trying to contract for 2M of them... well, I'm guessing that Foxconn's sales team is pretty tough, given that they battle…

The screen? It's Arrington's old macbook air screen. http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/19/apple-is-flailing-badly... Quote: "That $1,800 piece of hardware has now been dismantled for parts for a project we’re working on here."

I built the prototype. I was going to afford you a response to your first comment, but you have just been ranting. You can't even recognize the difference between a 13" Macbook Air screen and the 12" WXGA screen we used.

the guy above who talked about not disclosing components as a negotiating strategy with ODM's knows what he is talking about. He is also right in that there are a few people here in the valley who really know how to bend an ODM.

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#33

Post by sutro »

gstar wrote: post #2

Classy. Do these guys really think you can brew up a $200 web tablet at an old kitchen table? I've been critical of this project before, but my advice on the matter would be to refer techcrunch to the first facet of this effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect I don't understand how the commenters on TC think it's anywhere near an actual prototype. Groupthink? If they're serious about this project,…

Ever hear of a project called the Apple II that a "barefoot nerd" named Steve Wozniak cooked up in his apartment on down time from his HP day job? The customers and shareholders of Apple Computer are all grateful that he didn't share your belief that "no matter how good the EE, you can't do that stuff at a messy kitchen table - you need serious resources."

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#34

Post by wmf »

gstar wrote: post #18
mechanical_fish wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these guys really think you can brew up a $200 web tablet at an old kitchen table? Actually, that's a very good sign. Every one of the smartest EEs I know works like this: In apartments or labs filled with piles of random wires and oscilloscopes and beat-up hard drives. You can tell which parts are the important ones because they're the ones that are only half -covered with random junk. The first danger, when this…

And that is exactly my point. It's one thing to build a prototype, and another thing entirely to be able to mass produce a web tablet for $200. And no matter how good the EE, you can't do that stuff at a messy kitchen table - you need serious resources.

Indeed. When I (briefly) worked on hardware, even the prototypes had to be contracted out because you can't make PCBs and solder BGA on your kitchen table. We were aiming substantially higher than a tablet, though, so maybe you can do a lot with an eval board and some sheet metal.

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#35

Post by gstar »

cubrilovic wrote: post #32
gstar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The screen? It's Arrington's old macbook air screen. http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/08/19/apple-is-flailing-badly... Quote: "That $1,800 piece of hardware has now been dismantled for parts for a project we’re working on here."

I built the prototype. I was going to afford you a response to your first comment, but you have just been ranting. You can't even recognize the difference between a 13" Macbook Air screen and the 12" WXGA screen we used. the guy above who talked about not disclosing components as a negotiating strategy with ODM's knows what he is talking about. He is also right in that there are a few people here in the valley who re…

Nice work. Of course I can't tell the difference, because all that anyone's seen is a photo of your prototype. I think I made a fair assumption.

Thanks for weighing in with a comment though, and as I said before, please do prove me wrong!

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#36

Post by gstar »

sutro wrote: post #33
gstar wrote: post #2

Classy. Do these guys really think you can brew up a $200 web tablet at an old kitchen table? I've been critical of this project before, but my advice on the matter would be to refer techcrunch to the first facet of this effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect I don't understand how the commenters on TC think it's anywhere near an actual prototype. Groupthink? If they're serious about this project,…

Ever hear of a project called the Apple II that a "barefoot nerd" named Steve Wozniak cooked up in his apartment on down time from his HP day job? The customers and shareholders of Apple Computer are all grateful that he didn't share your belief that "no matter how good the EE, you can't do that stuff at a messy kitchen table - you need serious resources."

Yeah, I have actually. That was 32 years ago, when you could etch boards at home and mount thru-hole DIP components in your shed. No idea if Woz etched the boards himself, but ferric chloride was always cheaper than LSD.

Sorry, but computers in 2008 are significantly more challenging to produce from scratch.

My assumptions when I made my assertion that this isn't something that can be done at a kitchen table:

- A design for a $200 touch screen web tablet is pretty much going to require a custom PCB.

- The design of that board would more than likely be a repackaged and licensed board from the cpu/chipset manufacturer, and it's not something you do in a hobbyist's workspace - you need CAD.

- You would likely not even design it yourself, you'd spec the physical, heat and electrical goals to the manufacturer and have them do it.

- Even if they were working from engineering samples and rigged up bits of gear hooked together with wire-wrap wire, proper low power and low cost components require exotic connectors and/or exotic soldering, and they just aren't available without commercial agreements.

- I assume they're going to need a processor architecture other than x86 to meet the price point (i think an Intel Atom or a Via + chipset would be approaching $50 in commercial quantities) - and I doubt anything off the shelf is going to do what they want it to.

Having said all that, some kind of mini-itx board with an atom or via processor, or a gumstix or something - and a discrete (say usb?) touch screen and lcd on an LVDS would approximate hardware-wise what they'd be likely to be building.

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#37

Post by noonespecial »

tsuraan wrote: post #29
noonespecial wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time this came up I posted this: Lets do it with stuff we can get and see what happens: Main Board: (truly open, schematics and all) : http://beagleboard.org/ ($149) Screen : Lilliput 8" 1024x768 touch screen ( http://www.case-mod.com/lilliput-809gl80npct-lcd-touch-scree... .) ($259) Network : 802.11g wifi ( http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Wi-Fi.html ) ($30) Battery: 7.4v LiIon 5200mAh (4 hours run) http://www.all-ba…

Your link for the lcd touchscreen is truncated with elipses. That is, the actual href="" part is truncated. Is this a feature of the hn software, or did the link get pasted in wrong?

Ah, it was from the cutting and the pasting of the actual post. Here's the link to the post.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=252996

The site that sells the touch screen says "down for maintenance" right now though...

I also liked the idea of using an eeePC and using a $60 touch overlay that one can get easily on ebay. Google "touch screen eeepc". Many people have made some very nice looking modifications in this regard.

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#38

Post by netcan »

tsuraan wrote: post #28
axod wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already pick up eee's and copies for $200 or so... I'm not sure where the market is for a tablet like this personally. It's less useful than an iphone (not portable), and less useful than a laptop (No keyboard).

And yet, this is exactly what I've been looking for for the past year or so. Not every computer needs to be a content creation device; I want a computer for my kitchen that's used for retrieving recipes. I can make the software to store and present the recipies, but I can't find a keyboard-free tablet (basically a 10" nokia 770) that would be useful for displaying the recipies in my kitchen, mounted on the wall. One…

I love that recipes is always used as a way of explaining how useful consumer technology is. I think Apple Lisa had an ad with a women using it in the kitchen.

You'd think that recipes present our biggest problem needing a technological fix.

BTW: I agree that if it's cheap, easy & nice, there'll be all sort of uses for it.

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#39

Post by orib »

netcan wrote: post #38
tsuraan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, this is exactly what I've been looking for for the past year or so. Not every computer needs to be a content creation device; I want a computer for my kitchen that's used for retrieving recipes. I can make the software to store and present the recipies, but I can't find a keyboard-free tablet (basically a 10" nokia 770) that would be useful for displaying the recipies in my kitchen, mounted on the wall. One…

I love that recipes is always used as a way of explaining how useful consumer technology is. I think Apple Lisa had an ad with a women using it in the kitchen. You'd think that recipes present our biggest problem needing a technological fix. BTW: I agree that if it's cheap, easy & nice, there'll be all sort of uses for it.

I think this H316 tops that quite nicely: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=927

Not only does it store recipes, it has an integrated cutting board!

Re: Update On The TechCrunch Tablet: Prototype A

#40

Post by netcan »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #30
ComputerGuru wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's doable - BUT not the way they're marketing it. As a pure gadget and not a PC, it's very possible. Take out the touch screen, add a keyboard, use ARM instead of x86, and you're all set. I blogged about it in detail here: http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/what-the-techcrunch-tablet-sho...

A keyboard for this kind of device would be stupid. If that's what you're after, just get an Eee. And browsing the web without a touchscreen or some kind of pointing device would be a horrible experience. They've got the concept nailed for the most part...now the challenging is building it for that price.

Agreed. This is not a laptop. It needs to be a distinct creature.

If this takes off it can have some sort of keyboard down the track. But only after the users figure out what it's for. And the keyboard is probably not central to that.

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