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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

nytimes.com

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Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#451

Post by DonHopkins »

BackBlast wrote: post #225
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

It's... complicated... I rode a bike to school when my limited money would buy a very bad car or a nice bike. So I opted for the bike and had to ride it because that's all I had. I did that for a couple of years - even in the cold and ice. My commute distance varied in my biking days, from 6 to 20 miles. I always obeyed all the traffic laws, though occasionally in the early AM I'd find lights that would not turn gree…

Rude behavior goes both ways, but one way is much deadlier than the other.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43060/coal-rolling-teen-that-h...

>Coal-Rolling Teen That Hit Cyclists Charged With Six Felonies

>The 16-year-old was not arrested after the incident, but has now surrendered to authorities.

>On September 25, a group of cyclists riding near Waller, Texas, were hit by a Ford Super Duty driven by a 16-year old youth. Reports from witnesses indicated the driver had been "rolling coal" on the group immediately prior to striking six cyclists, four of whom were hospitalized due to injuries sustained. Now, news out of Texas is that the teen driver is finally in custody according to the District Attorney of Waller County, over a month after the incident occurred.

>[...] Cyclist Chase Ferrell, who saw the events unfold, told Fox 26 at the time that the crash happened "because [the driver] was accelerating to blow more diesel fuel on these cyclists," adding that the driver "ended up hitting 3 people before his brakes even started." Ferrell noted that the teen remained at the scene after hitting the cyclists, and spoke to police. However, the driver was not arrested in the wake of the crash. "I don't understand, if it was me who had struck someone else, I would be in jail," noted Ferrell.

https://www.thedrive.com/article/9930/colorado-bans-rolling-...

>Colorado Bans Rolling Coal: Hallelujah!

>It doesn't matter that it will be nearly impossible to enforce: this legislation is more than welcome.

>For those not in the know, rolling coal is the name for blasting black smoke out the exhaust of a diesel-engined vehicle. It is done by modifying the air and fuel mixture in forced induction diesel engines to make the engines run rich, the result of which is a cloud of soot blowing out the tailpipes. This is done for the childish sake of annoying people, typically anyone that a coal-roller doesn't like, which includes but is not limited to hybrid drivers, convertible drivers, bicyclists, pedestrians, and anyone who so much as looks like they don't attend the same evangelical megachurch. Why do people do it? Nobody one can say for sure, though it has been suggested that it has its roots in anti-environmentalism.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#452

Post by DonHopkins »

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #138
KennyBlanken wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I fear the push-back when someone inevitably gets hurt. Which is fascinating and really tells you something about ingroups and outgroups because cyclists are hurt and killed every day by drivers and strangely nobody seems to be that fussed about it.

The Texas "rolling coal" case shows you can attempt to murder a group of cyclists and face no legal repercussions if you are in the right political climate.

To the driver's credit, he was only trying to mine cryptocurrency, not attempting to murder the bicyclists. /s

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#453

Post by mulmen »

tlamponi wrote: post #443
mulmen wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, legally they are limited. Here in the real world people are riding electric mopeds at nearly 30mph on bike paths anyway. Happens all the time. There are pedestrians walking in the bike path too. Someone is going to get hurt.

And people also ride motorbikes in bike lanes, even cars sometimes - so what's your point? Legal ebikes won't make this more dangerous, and people doing illegal stuff are always more likely to not care and endanger people.

I other than e-bikes I have never seen a motorcycle on a bike path. I'm not sure you know what I am talking about when I say bike path.

I am talking about a dedicated asphalt path that runs parallel to a road with parking and/or a curb or barrier between traffic and the bike path. Next to this path is a sidewalk for pedestrians, separated by grass. In some places the pedestrian and bicycle traffic merge. They are always separated from traffic. Sometimes they take routes that do not follow roads, such as through parks.

The road itself also has a bike lane which is striped between traffic and the parked cars. Cars and bicycles sometimes share this space, sometimes it is separated by a double white line or some cones. Considerate bicycle riders that want to go faster than is safe around pedestrians use this in-the-road bike lane rather than the bike path. This is where e-bikes that can go 28mph belong.

The only motorized vehicles I have ever seen on these bicycle paths are e-bikes. I have not seen full electric motorcycles (with plates, like a Zero) or any ICE vehicle, even a moped, on these paths.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#454

Post by DonHopkins »

dan-robertson wrote: post #124
Rapzid wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I'm at there is a major project to overhaul a road, let's call it "Broadway", with conservation drainage, walkability(like 10ft wide sidewalks), medians, trees, and bike paths. The project kept getting derailed due to bicycle special interests having a literal fit because a section of the road was too narrow to have the walkable sidewalks(priority number 1), the cycle lanes with adequate safety, and not congest…

From my totally uninformed perspective, it seems like the thing to lose should be the cars. If you’re having 10 ft wide sidewalks on a (guessing from the name) important street so that more people can walk there, then maybe you should deliberately make it worse for cars to discourage high speeds or unnecessary journeys. Of all modes of transport, cars are best able to make detours because they are fast and require li…

The term for "deliberately make it worse for cars" is "Traffic Calming", and it works quite well, prevents accidents, and saves lives:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

>Traffic calming uses physical design and other measures to improve safety for motorists, pedestrians and cyclists. It has become a tool to combat speeding and other unsafe behaviours of drivers in the neighbourhoods. It aims to encourage safer, more responsible driving and potentially reduce traffic flow. Urban planners and traffic engineers have many strategies for traffic calming, including narrowed roads and speed humps. Such measures are common in Australia and Europe (especially Northern Europe), but less so in North America. Traffic calming is a calque (literal translation) of the German word Verkehrsberuhigung – the term's first published use in English was in 1985 by Carmen Hass-Klau.

https://www.wired.com/2004/12/traffic/

>HANS MONDERMAN is a traffic engineer who hates traffic signs. Oh, he can put up with the well-placed speed limit placard or a dangerous curve warning on a major highway, but Monderman considers most signs to be not only annoying but downright dangerous. To him, they are an admission of failure, a sign - literally - that a road designer somewhere hasn't done his job. "The trouble with traffic engineers is that when there's a problem with a road, they always try to add something," Monderman says. "To my mind, it's much better to remove things."

>[...] In Denmark, the town of Christianfield stripped the traffic signs and signals from its major intersection and cut the number of serious or fatal accidents a year from three to zero. In England, towns in Suffolk and Wiltshire have removed lane lines from secondary roads in an effort to slow traffic - experts call it "psychological traffic calming." A dozen other towns in the UK are looking to do the same. A study of center-line removal in Wiltshire, conducted by the Transport Research Laboratory, a UK transportation consultancy, found that drivers with no center line to guide them drove more safely and had a 35 percent decrease in the number of accidents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Monderman

Hans Monderman: Rethinking the design of streets and public space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjBGokenEhQ

>An Urban Design London and Urban Design Group Lecture

>Hans Monderman has been one of the most significant influences on the current debate about the design of streets and spaces in the UK. A traffic engineer and road safety specialist from Northern Holland, he is celebrated as the pioneer of shared space as a means to influence speed and driver behaviour.

>Monderman has been the inspiration behind scores of towns and villages which work without road markings, traffic signs, signals, kerbs, barriers and bollards. ‘Most engineers, when faced with a problem, try to add something,’ he says. ‘My instinct has always been to take something away.’ Following a short introduction by Rob Cowan, Hans explains his approach, work and experiences.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#455

Post by Xylakant »

Rapzid wrote: post #108
bch wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies I don’t know who “those people” are, or what regional politics are at play, but that doesn’t pass my “smell test”. How about deploying “think about the children” here for something that increases exercise and happiness, mobility, fosters growth… it’s not even contentious with respect to (e.g.) civil liberties. I suspect the answer is people j…

Where I'm at there is a major project to overhaul a road, let's call it "Broadway", with conservation drainage, walkability(like 10ft wide sidewalks), medians, trees, and bike paths. The project kept getting derailed due to bicycle special interests having a literal fit because a section of the road was too narrow to have the walkable sidewalks(priority number 1), the cycle lanes with adequate safety, and not congest…

It’s interesting to note that the cyclists in your example have the same interest as the rest of the parties: an equal and safe share of the available road space and yet, you all them “special interests” and they’re supposed to yield and take a detour.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#456

Post by tonyedgecombe »

mrep wrote: post #171
notatoad wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

again, this is exactly the sort of politics that hopefully will change as more people ride bikes. yes, there's some bad cyclists. but because there's few enough cyclists, people who aren't cyclists like to group us all together. when a driver or pedestrian is an asshole, you say the person was an asshole, because you understand that they don't represent all drivers or all pedestrians any more than you do. but when a…

In my experience, the percentage of cyclists that disregard the rules of the road are an order of magnitude higher than car drivers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#457

Post by tonyedgecombe »

nradov wrote: post #125
notacoward wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they change the politics around cycling While I agree with e-bikes being a generally good thing, I also think they involve a lot of secondary consequences and we still need to figure out the best solutions. For example, having more e-bikes on the already overcrowded bike path near where I live is becoming a disaster . There had already been enough problems with mismatched speeds, impatience on all sides, etc. There…

I'm a bit of a "rich lycra-clad yuppy" myself, and occasionally ride with other such cyclists. I've literally never heard anyone express horror at the idea of their hobby becoming more inclusive. Mostly e-bike riders are just ignored. Like they don't affect us in any way and we barely even notice that they exist.

The worst you get from "real" cyclists is the occasional complaint that you are cheating.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#458

Post by tlamponi »

mulmen wrote: post #453
tlamponi wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people also ride motorbikes in bike lanes, even cars sometimes - so what's your point? Legal ebikes won't make this more dangerous, and people doing illegal stuff are always more likely to not care and endanger people.

I other than e-bikes I have never seen a motorcycle on a bike path. I'm not sure you know what I am talking about when I say bike path . I am talking about a dedicated asphalt path that runs parallel to a road with parking and/or a curb or barrier between traffic and the bike path. Next to this path is a sidewalk for pedestrians, separated by grass. In some places the pedestrian and bicycle traffic merge. They are al…

> I am talking about a dedicated asphalt path that runs parallel to a road with parking and/or a curb or barrier between traffic and the bike path. Next to this path is a sidewalk for pedestrians, separated by grass. In some places the pedestrian and bicycle traffic merge. They are always separated from traffic. Sometimes they take routes that do not follow roads, such as through parks.

Yeah, I assumed both (separate bike road and just painted bike lane) and I've seen both.. And really even a car during rush hour, granted in a bit more rural area and the bike road wasn't _that_ much used, but still...

> The only motorized vehicles I have ever seen on these bicycle paths are e-bikes. I have not seen full electric motorcycles (with plates, like a Zero) or any ICE vehicle, even a moped, on these paths.

Yeah, but as, at least where I live (in a European country) they're limited to 25 km/h it's not a issue. As said, pedelecs, which can go faster, are a thing but need a plate, more safety equipment and insurance, and I see no reason why people then would more (or less) frequently use them illegally like existing motorized vehicles.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#459

Post by enriquto »

vishnugupta wrote: post #415
_se wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 miles is a very easy bike commute, not sure what you're talking about. It's about 20 minutes each way.

> 5 miles is a very easy bike commute Having done a similar distance in the cycling capital of the world for about a year I wouldn't exactly call it "easy". I was happy to exchange it for a bus + tram combination even though it added ~15 minutes. Though I'll admit it's nice to be able to commute that distance by bike once or twice a week; but to do it day in and day out gets tiring.

> to do it day in and day out gets tiring

Can confirm this: I'm doing a 14 km commute and yes, for the first few weeks it's really tiring. Wanted to go to sleep as soon as I got home every afternoon. However, after say 2 or 3 months, your metabolism sort of adapts to it and you do it "naturally", without thinking too much about it. The idea of taking the bus again makes me anxious, though.

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