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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

nytimes.com

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Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#391

Post by adrianN »

parineum wrote: post #65
kevincrane wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most bikers only use the sidewalk when the road infrastructure as-is isn’t safe enough for bikers. And I fully agree that there are a lot of bad bikers, but a bad biker is a nuisance to a driver while a bad driver is a potential fatality to a biker.

> Most bikers only use the sidewalk when the road infrastructure as-is isn’t safe enough for bikers. You have to see how this is a completely selfish position right? The road is dangerous for cyclists so cyclists make the sidewalk dangerous for pedestrians. Sure there's a difference in degree but that's not a justification. > And I fully agree that there are a lot of bad bikers, but a bad biker is a nuisance to a dri…

Well, humans are selfish, regardless of their mode of transportation. That's why we need infrastructure (and laws) that ensures that the selfish choice is the socially beneficial one too.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#392

Post by adrianN »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #376
lmm wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ass-backwards. If you can't drive safely around children then you shouldn't be licensed to operate a 3-tonne death machine in residential areas.

What if the child doesn't know what a give way sign means? Or doesn't know what to do in a round about, or likes to run red lights to show off to their friends. Kids do dumb things sometimes and the road is a dangerous place to be.

Adults do dumb things too, all the time.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#393

Post by erect_hacker »

elzbardico wrote: post #336
danny_codes wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In regards to bike-rider behavior on roads, of course cyclists appear "misbehaved" on roads. The roads are not designed for cyclists, so we have to fight with the design of the transport network to get anywhere Car-oriented transport infrastructure has been a terrible mistake. Don't blame the cyclists for trying to salvage something from the wreckage.

Car-oriented infra structure was responsible for a sizable portion of the economical development for quite a while.

Because we made it that way, cars had nothing to do with it.

Hong Kong is not car oriented and it develop just fine…

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#394

Post by scott_w »

fnord77 wrote: post #331
jkdufair wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 5 mile commute on an eBike is trivial.

I have a class 3 ebike (28 mph). I found the 5 mile commute exhausting even though I wasn't exerting myself much. Mentally exhausting, I guess. It's trivial once - it's a grind doing it 2x every day. This is in San Francisco. I'm in good shape, I run 4-5 miles a couple times a week. I think the worst part is a stop sign every block.

As you’ve highlighted: it’s the infrastructure slowing you down. That’s why cities need to build good bike infrastructure, so it’s safe and easy to ride around.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#395

Post by jameshush »

I’ve _loved_ using the publically available “YouBikes” since I’ve moved to Taipei. Because of the number of people using scooters cars pay a lot more attention then when I cycled in Los Angeles.

Not having a car and being able to bike and take transit around the city has been the most significant value add to my quality of life in a long time.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#396

Post by Scroedingershat »

BackBlast wrote: post #225
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

It's... complicated... I rode a bike to school when my limited money would buy a very bad car or a nice bike. So I opted for the bike and had to ride it because that's all I had. I did that for a couple of years - even in the cold and ice. My commute distance varied in my biking days, from 6 to 20 miles. I always obeyed all the traffic laws, though occasionally in the early AM I'd find lights that would not turn gree…

> Now, as a driver, I am appalled at the behavior of cyclists. With my experience I take interest in and carefully watch their behavior.

> Running red lights and not stopping for stop signs is the worst. And it's pretty universal.

Some areas have a yield at stop signs law for bikes so the stop signs could be legal, but I think a major driver of this kind of behavior is bike hostile infrastructure. If you've stopped for your 20th red light that prioritises non existent car traffic and that won't turn green today, or you're going past your fifth intersection that requires crossing at signals 3 times, waiting 2 minutes a piece on an empty road with visibility 500m in each direction it starts seeming pointless. Once someone is in the habit of disobeying clearly pointless (or in the case of many stop signs, actively unsafe because there is no visibility at the sign and accelerating up hill from a stop rather than 2mph causes you to spend far more time in the danger zone) signals and signage I can see it being easy to start ignoring others.

Respect works both ways, and when your city and laws clearly disrespect someone you shouldn't be surprised they stop respecting you.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#397

Post by mulmen »

spiderice wrote: post #385
mulmen wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't limited to conventional biking speed. The rental bikes are close but they're still significantly faster than any human-powered vehicle on the bike path. A buddy of mine bought a Super73 which has speed limiting modes but operates purely on the honor system. In the "unlimited" mode it can do 28mph, without pedaling. In the "limited" mode it can still do 20, which is faster than most people are capable of f…

I’m pretty sure a super 73 IS illegal to ride on bike paths. At least where I live you aren’t allowed to ride a bike that has a thumb throttle. If it only has pedal assist, it’s a bike. If it had a thumb throttle, it’s a motorcycle.

Exactly. And yet people ride them on dedicated bike paths at full speed with impunity.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#398

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

> legislation aimed at reducing emissions subtly encourages the use of cars

I'm curious about this - do you have specific examples? HOV/EV lanes?

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#399

Post by Scroedingershat »

dan-robertson wrote: post #110
enriquto wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixed-use paths are an extremely bad idea and dangerous for everybody. I actively avoid them as a pedestrian and as a cyclist. They should all disappear. If ebikes help to accelerate the inevitable dismissal of these stupid mixed-use lanes, so good! A bike-friendly infrastructure is based on three separate networks, for pedestrians, cycles and cars. Each of the three networks must be continuous, reasonably complete a…

I think I mostly disagree. But this probably depends on the definition of cyclist. If these path users are lycra-clad individuals trying to go as fast as they can and desperately trying not to lose momentum, the experience will be poor. Similarly if you have e-bike users who are basically taking silent mopeds down a trail and swerving between people things won’t go well. But if it’s someone who is not obsessed with s…

Mixed use paths as seen in parks are for dogs, pedestrians, children cyclists and beginners. They are not and should not be for commuting except maybe as a last mile connection, because commuters are moving at about 15-20km/h if they want to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. As soon as they get busy there are so many conflict points that accidents are inevitable.

Calling them bike infrastructure is like calling a school zone with zebra crossings and speed bumps a highway.

They are what should be built first though, because you don't get new cyclists without low speed, safe, fully separated bike infrastructure. They should always be paired with a nearby road with a cycle lane and somr plan for separated infrastructure though.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#400

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

mulmen wrote: post #246

I like that e-bikes are getting more people on two-wheeled transportation. I dislike that people are effectively riding motorcycles on dedicated bike paths. I especially dislike that companies get to profit from cluttering public spaces with bicycle and scooter litter. My hope is that long-term we get the e-bikes into the street where they belong and combine that with traffic calming measures to make scooter commutin…

> cluttering public spaces with bicycle and scooter litter.

I think this is a disingenuous description of "provide a valuable service that many people appreciate".

I also don't see why speed-limited e-bikes shouldn't be on bike paths, unless you're living in an area where they are unthrottled or have a ridiculously high limit.

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