The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down • Hacker News Board

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#341

Post by zwieback » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

timbit42 wrote: post #89

zwieback wrote: post #26

I'm a year-round non-e-bike commuter in Oregon. I love e-bikes but until you can ride without getting soaked it'll be successful only part of the year in most of the US. We need something between the e-bike and golf-cart style EVs to fill the gap, some kind of sophisticated fairing or a 3 wheel format that isn't super dorky.

Have you looked at the Organic Transit ELF or Better Bikes PEBL?

Yeah, those look pretty cool. Not sure if they could go on every bike path but would cover almost all use cases.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#342

Post by richiebful1 » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

jmcphers wrote: post #208

kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

> It’s super unfortunate that it still gets the stereotype as a “rich white people” activity when it’s really so much more financially accessible than a car. It's true that a bicycle is itself cheaper than a car, but housing within biking distance to job centers sure isn't. In my view this is the primary reason bicycle commuters are stereotypically rich folks. The bicycle itself isn't the expensive part; you need pro…

This doesn't generalize to most cities though. In my Rust Belt city, the government has put a lot of effort into making cycling safer on the road. The people cycling from one neighborhood to the next are a diverse bunch. Kids are using cheap hand-me-down bikes to go to school. College kids are commuting to campus. Adults of all ages are riding to work at a service job or downtown office.

What it took was a focus on good quality bike lanes outside the affluent white neighborhoods, bike accessibility at transit stations/on busses, and expansion of bikeshare to poorer neighborhoods.

The rich lycra-wearing stereotype won't go away until we invest in equitable access to bike infrastructure.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#343

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:35 AM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #84

notacoward wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put. Shifting the problem around doesn't solve it.

It does reduce the total danger. Cyclists are killed by cars all the time, whereas pedestrians dying to bikes is extraordinarily rare. In Germany, protected bike lanes are mostly extensions of the sidewalk, and while it's not ideal, it still works pretty well.

> "Cyclists are killed by cars all the time, whereas pedestrians dying to bikes is extraordinarily rare."

Evidence I can find suggests that's not entirely true. While pedestrians dying to bikes is extraordinarily rare, police reports of crashes in the UK in 2019 involving a (pedal cycle, pedestrian) pair happened 375 times and killed 4 pedestrians (~1%). Crashes involving a (car, bike) pair happened 13,336 times killed 48 cyclists (~0.3%).

That is (bike, pedestrian) happens 35x less often than (car, bike) but is fatal to the weaker party 3x more often when it does happen.

This dataset is particularly "accidents involving a pedal cycle and pedestrians which don't involve any other vehicles" so it excludes car -> bike + walker, kills walker situations.

(Injuries are another matter).

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/reported... looking at sheet RAS40004: Accidents, vehicle users and pedestrian casualties by severity and combination of vehicles involved (ODS, 105KB) with Vehicle A being Pedal Cycle -> Single Vehicle accident with Pedestrian and Pedal Cycle -> Two vehicle accidents with Car.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#344

Post by gorgoiler » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:39 AM UTC

A major problem with electric pushbikes is that they are fast.

A few days ago I was pulling out of a side road. I was turning to go into town such that I had to first cross a lane of traffic going out of town.

I checked the crossing lane — nothing except for a guy in work clothes, no helmet, on a push bike. I checked the other direction and it was clear. I looked back towards town and got ready to start moving and…

HEY! The guy on the bike who was maybe 100 yards away before was now right in front of me. I was moments from pulling out in front of, or more like on top of him. He must have been doing 25-30mph without breaking a sweat.

It’s going to take a generation to re-learn our assumptions about what these vehicles mean. I wish, for their sake, they were speed limited to be like normal bicycles.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#345

Post by alephnan » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:40 AM UTC

Is there a Tesla of bikes?

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#346

Post by Gigachad » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:40 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #122

The biggest hurdles with ebikes are their high cost relative to a cheap used bike (nicer ebikes are in used car territory) and likelyhood of theft in an urban area. It would probably help a lot of commutes if people had a safe place to park their bike or ebike at a train station or business or school where it won't be stripped down for parts. Rental scooters and ebikes also suffer from this problem but it doesn't mat…

Theft is such a massive issue. I pretty much gave up cycling because there is just no way to secure a bike that actually works. Criminals come out at night with power tools, bust their way through the walls of the apartment bike storage, and cut your locks at 2AM. They have hoodies and masks so CCTV is useless. Sure I guess I could hide an airtag on one, but then I have to actually do something when it inevitably gets stolen and moves to a dangerous location.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#347

Post by topkai22 » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

akgerber wrote: post #133

asdff wrote: post #122

The biggest hurdles with ebikes are their high cost relative to a cheap used bike (nicer ebikes are in used car territory) and likelyhood of theft in an urban area. It would probably help a lot of commutes if people had a safe place to park their bike or ebike at a train station or business or school where it won't be stripped down for parts. Rental scooters and ebikes also suffer from this problem but it doesn't mat…

Renter's/homeowner's insurance covers one's property at home or away from it. One can get a rider for particularly valuable property. "Velosurance" is also an option for many with expensive cargo ebikes. Ebikes are a pretty new technology with very little used market so far, but that will change quickly— I already managed to dig one up for 50% off MSRP last winter.

Be careful there- renters will generally cover theft with a low enough deductible to make it worth it, but homeowners deductibles can easily be near or higher than the cost of the bike.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#348

Post by bradlys » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #320

Ticklee wrote: post #314

The problem with e-bikes is that they have been hampered down so hard by regulations. No throttle, only pedal assist, 250w motors maximum and no assist over 25km/h turns it from the perfect future-proof vehicle for inner-city use and suburban commuting into a weird hybrid that isn't fast enough to replace a light road bike, But also not strong enough to haul multiple saddlebags full of groceries up hills without brea…

I hope that electric motor cycles will come down in cost and weight. A little faster than ebikes, and silent, but with all the safety features of a motorcycle. And registered. And requiring a license.

Outside of ABS, I cannot think of any safety features a motorcycle has. Maybe traction control if you’re really concerned. Even then, ABS and TC is still optional.

You’re not getting forward collision warning or anything like that on two wheels. Certainly not airbags or a cage to protect you…

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#349

Post by usefulcat » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

wmil wrote: post #278

_se wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 miles is a very easy bike commute, not sure what you're talking about. It's about 20 minutes each way.

Google maps estimates it about 35 minutes, so almost twice as long as you're thinking.

I used to do a 5 mile commute. I didn’t have to deal with any major elevation changes, and it was about 35 minutes. Maybe a professional athlete could do it in 20, but they would still have to wait at stoplights occasionally. You will definitely arrive sweaty unless you are in a very cold climate. All that said, I consider 5 miles to be pretty reasonable for a bike commute.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#350

Post by usefulcat » Tue, Nov 09, 2021, 4:48 AM UTC

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #308

wmil wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google maps estimates it about 35 minutes, so almost twice as long as you're thinking.

That would be an extremely leisurely pace. If you commute regularly on a bike and are reasonably fit, you should be able to ride at about 12 mph without breaking a sweat, which gets you a time of about 25 minutes.

Sure, if you never have to wait for a stoplight.