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Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

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Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#141

Post by harambae »

civilized wrote: post #134
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The most important thing is that the currency is actually used to make transactions that are meaningful to human life. Millions of people use cryptocurrency on a daily basis to make transactions that are not only meaningful, but absolutely critical to human life. Here in New York I personally know more than a dozen people who regularly send cryptocurrency to their families in other countries. It is cheaper, easier a…

> It is cheaper, easier and faster than using banks and legacy money transfer vehicles like Moneygram or Western Union and it has the added bonus of not being saddled with the red tape or regulatory requirements that go along with these institutions. This situation feels unsustainable. Traditional institutions don't ask questions because they love getting into your business, they ask because of AML and KYC regulation…

>If crypto eats the lunch of these traditional institutions because it doesn't have to follow the rules they do, things are going to come to a head sooner or later.

Yeah people have been saying this about bittorrent for about 15 years too: since it's illegal it'll have to a stop because the government will end it. And yet take a guess how I just watched HBO's Succession?

I could believe that having someone else hold your bitcoins and allow an easy webpage interface to break the law will end.

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#142

Post by rvz »

tata71 wrote: post #94
rvz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good idea, however it's a shame that this is sitting on a very inefficient blockchain, its TLD already collides with Ethiopia and to renew requires paying for the highly expensive gas fees which isn't great if you own multiple subdomains. The subdomains on ENS (which are all sitting on the .eth TLD) are also going to be in good hands; surely. /s

zxkrollup

You still need to pay gas fess to approve and move it there.

Just look at the disaster that the ENS domain holders are experiencing by wasting thousands on gas fees just to claim ENS tokens. [0]

[0] https://twitter.com/ensdomains/status/1457862602239926274

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#143

Post by Irongirl1 »

As a non-techie and a member of a minority class, I am going to say that the reason crypto is rising so fast is: ACCESS.

We can finally gain access to banking services desperately needed rather than some arbitrary check box designed to keep us from making progress and improving our communities and the lives of those around us.

Let's say as an example, that I need $1M to fix some buildings I own. But my personal credit is crappy, I'm BROWN and a Woman. In the regular financial markets, I would either get turned down flat or my rates would be so high that there wouldn't be any point to my borrowing the money. But in the DeFi World, I might find an investor willing to negotiate better terms with me. That back and forth and the possibility of that back and forth is important. Before, there was just a closed door. Now, there might be a window open or a huge truck bay left wide.

If I decide to create a product, now I can guarantee that my audience is not filled with trolls or dangerous people who are hiding in my email list under false pretenses. I can sell them access to my way of thinking and be assured that I am delivering the value where I intended. That is VALUABLE.

I could list tons of reason why CRYPTO Is valuable, but in looking at all the answers already here I can tell that none of you really seem all that interested in the 80/20 problem. Currently, 80% of financial services goes to 20% of the marketplace (in general terms). That 20% don't actually need more services. The bulk of us who might can't get reasonable help on any terms. Projects like this that make it possible only have one trajectory: UP.

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#144

Post by mysecretaccount »

abetusk wrote: post #65

Hacker News (HN) is actively hostile to the idea of cryptocurrency. I doubt you'll get a measured opinion, one way or the other. Stacker News (SN) is a place that is at least attempting to have these conversations, though they swing the other way and are actively pro-cryptocurrency, even if the main focus is on Bitcoin and Lightning [0]. --- Let me try to actually answer your question. * Cryptocurrency is creating va…

> 10x about every 4 years (around 20% APR)

1.2^4 is ~2x. 10x in 4 years is ~80% APR.

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#145

Post by scalesolved »

JohnFen wrote: post #101
lifekaizen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the pro-crypto side, but the US dollar has more than consumer confidence, it has the largest armed forces the world has ever seen. So a better comparison is something like gold, I think, that has value because we say it has value (it's shiny! and rare...)... which is fine, just different.

I'm not "anti-crypto", but reason that I won't touch it is that it's not stable. With dollars, I know that the money will have a roughly constant value across time. Cryptocurrencies do the opposite of that. By the measure of stability, gold is also preferable to crytocurrency. If I were a speculator, that instability would be attractive. But I'm not.

The dollar hasn't had a roughly constant value across time, perhaps on short time periods.

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#146

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

a_square_peg wrote: post #55

I think crypto space has managed to create a class of unregulated financial instruments and markets - I feel like I'm watching what would happen if the stock market was not regulated at all. If I were Wall Street trader, I think this is really fascinating - sufficient amount to be interesting (billions of dollars at play) and regulators are yet to make sense of what's going on. FYI, there are less than 5000 publicly…

Your comment maybe implies that maybe Wall Street is watching from a distance. I think Wall St and large banks are deep into crypto, they have to be the cause of large swings in price movement, individuals rarely have $billions that can be moved around.

A financial market with zero regulation and full anonymity? I bet it has brought all sorts of normally illegal money movements and transactions to it. Even coordinated pump and dumps are 100% possible without legal repercussions, as far as I understand it.

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#148

Post by forgotmysn »

Irongirl1 wrote: post #143

As a non-techie and a member of a minority class, I am going to say that the reason crypto is rising so fast is: ACCESS. We can finally gain access to banking services desperately needed rather than some arbitrary check box designed to keep us from making progress and improving our communities and the lives of those around us. Let's say as an example, that I need $1M to fix some buildings I own. But my personal credi…

before getting into your points themselves, the validity of your arguments are based on the merits of your arguments themselves. they aren't any more or less valid because of your status as a minority.

but onto your arguments, I don't think you've listed anything that didn't already exist. again, not to invalidate, but I don't think anything you've mentioned is a result of crypto itself.

regarding alternative liquidity, there has always been alternative investment and liquidity available outside the structured financial industry. private investors or money lenders, often times related to the mob or sketchy individuals, have been available long before crypto, and will continue to be available. often times, alternative investors using crypto to move funds are not much safer or more credible than the mobsters of old.

your second point refers to KYC, or Know Your Customer. this has been a legal requirement in the financial industry for decades, and certainly aren't a result of any innovation or achievement in the crypto space.

again, not to invalidate any of your arguments, but I'm not sure any of them answer OP's question.

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#149

Post by beckingz »

DennisP wrote: post #119
mohanmcgeek wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prisoners use things like cigarettes as currency This didn't happen in a society that didn't have money. Prisoners have an approximate idea of how much a cigarate is worth in dollar terms and how much they're willing to pay for..a phone call (?) > David Graeber, money actually arose as an abstraction of debts Yes. I think you're drawing the wrong conclusions from that chapter of the book. The money that we have tod…

> This didn't happen in a society that didn't have money. That seems like a tautology. > The money that we have today Well yes, I didn't claim cryptocurrency works like the money we have today .

Bootstrapping!

Re: Ask HN: Why crypto is rising so fast when its not creating value?

#150

Post by kypro »

The average uninformed retail investor is obviously going to be drawn to investments which are seemingly obvious, making their friends rich and which have low barriers to entry.

What will eventually happen is that the market will run out of greater fools and the obviousness of Crypto as an investment in the future of finance will be brought into question.

At this point the userbase of Crypto will shift from speculators to genuine users and its real value will be better understood as individuals and companies focus on useful products and services rather than pumping meme coins to uninformed investors.

This imo is a classic bubble. I've been saying this for years though and will likely continue saying it for a few more years yet. But I have little doubt that in the long-term that what we're seeing in the Crypto space is unsustainable.

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