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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

nytimes.com

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Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#241

Post by danny_codes »

BackBlast wrote: post #225
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

It's... complicated... I rode a bike to school when my limited money would buy a very bad car or a nice bike. So I opted for the bike and had to ride it because that's all I had. I did that for a couple of years - even in the cold and ice. My commute distance varied in my biking days, from 6 to 20 miles. I always obeyed all the traffic laws, though occasionally in the early AM I'd find lights that would not turn gree…

In regards to bike-rider behavior on roads, of course cyclists appear "misbehaved" on roads. The roads are not designed for cyclists, so we have to fight with the design of the transport network to get anywhere

Car-oriented transport infrastructure has been a terrible mistake. Don't blame the cyclists for trying to salvage something from the wreckage.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#242

Post by celtain »

Rapzid wrote: post #108
bch wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies I don’t know who “those people” are, or what regional politics are at play, but that doesn’t pass my “smell test”. How about deploying “think about the children” here for something that increases exercise and happiness, mobility, fosters growth… it’s not even contentious with respect to (e.g.) civil liberties. I suspect the answer is people j…

Where I'm at there is a major project to overhaul a road, let's call it "Broadway", with conservation drainage, walkability(like 10ft wide sidewalks), medians, trees, and bike paths. The project kept getting derailed due to bicycle special interests having a literal fit because a section of the road was too narrow to have the walkable sidewalks(priority number 1), the cycle lanes with adequate safety, and not congest…

So the alternative to making the bikes take a detour was that there would be more congestion, not that the road would be closed to cars entirely?

It sure doesn't sound like the "bike special interests" were the ones being unreasonable here.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#243

Post by BackBlast »

JCharante wrote: post #230
BackBlast wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's... complicated... I rode a bike to school when my limited money would buy a very bad car or a nice bike. So I opted for the bike and had to ride it because that's all I had. I did that for a couple of years - even in the cold and ice. My commute distance varied in my biking days, from 6 to 20 miles. I always obeyed all the traffic laws, though occasionally in the early AM I'd find lights that would not turn gree…

Aren't people of lower economic means also more overweight? Some exercise doesn't seem like a bad idea.

There is a significant difference between recreational level exercise and work-every-day-because-you-have-no-other-method that's burning potentially >1000 calories per day and measurably increasing your food bill.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#244

Post by forgotmyoldname »

Maarten88 wrote: post #209
jackorange wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue goes further than that into being a societal problem. Majority of America is overweight, staring down at their phones day and night, and dread physical activity. They also like to flex their position and wealth to others, one of the reasons why pickup trucks and big SUVs sell in great numbers. These people are in no hurry to transition to riding bikes. The only way biking might work is if some popul…

I'd suggest starting with bike paths to schools. Kids don't have the problems you mention, they also don't have an alternative when they want to travel independently.

A lot of Americans are morbidly afraid of their children being away from adult supervision for more than a minute. I think suggesting 10 year olds ride a bike instead of taking a car or bus might infuriate more than a few people.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#245

Post by dTal »

jackorange wrote: post #186
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

I think the issue goes further than that into being a societal problem. Majority of America is overweight, staring down at their phones day and night, and dread physical activity. They also like to flex their position and wealth to others, one of the reasons why pickup trucks and big SUVs sell in great numbers. These people are in no hurry to transition to riding bikes. The only way biking might work is if some popul…

E-scooters might be a way in. They're not as fast or as safe (to the rider), but they're practical in way e-bikes aren't due to portability. You can carry one into the office and charge it under your desk. And they lack the cultural baggage of cycling. And it's possible to look suave on one in a way that bicycles make difficult.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#246

Post by mulmen »

I like that e-bikes are getting more people on two-wheeled transportation.

I dislike that people are effectively riding motorcycles on dedicated bike paths.

I especially dislike that companies get to profit from cluttering public spaces with bicycle and scooter litter.

My hope is that long-term we get the e-bikes into the street where they belong and combine that with traffic calming measures to make scooter commuting feasible from a safety perspective.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#247

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

kevincrane wrote: post #18
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

In Sydney they have been adding cycle lanes to a lot of roads. I don’t bike because Sydney drivers are terrible. But it’s a real half measure. They need to aggressively push out drivers I think.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#248

Post by wayoutthere »

UnFleshedOne wrote: post #132
cameldrv wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a real problem. IMO, the issue really is that ebikes are too good/too flexible. They are fast enough to get you to work quickly and more comfortably mix with city traffic. The flipside is that they're too fast to mix with pedestrian traffic. If there were some way of limiting speed on mixed use paths, e-bikes would be perfect.

Speed limits is how it is usually done -- cars can all go much faster than most roads allow for and we are mostly fine. Set speed limits and mercilessly fine serious violations, and the problem goes away as far as it will ever be.

Speed limits are not enforced in my corner of the country and the limits are way too low; it’s regular to do 85 in a 45. I’m additionally dubious of the ability of police to actually catch a speeding cyclist; when I was a college kid I easily outran the campus bike cops simply by being in good shape.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#249

Post by danny_codes »

nradov wrote: post #107
enriquto wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixed-use paths are an extremely bad idea and dangerous for everybody. I actively avoid them as a pedestrian and as a cyclist. They should all disappear. If ebikes help to accelerate the inevitable dismissal of these stupid mixed-use lanes, so good! A bike-friendly infrastructure is based on three separate networks, for pedestrians, cycles and cars. Each of the three networks must be continuous, reasonably complete a…

That's a nice ideal but it's just not realistic in most existing built up areas. There's literally not enough space for three separate networks without knocking down existing buildings and buying a lot of land through eminent domain. Let's focus on what can actually be achieved with realistic levels of funding.

I don't think this is true. I lived in SF for a while (assumedly this meets your definition of built up), and there's plenty of space.

The key is that cars don't belong in most places anyway. A residential street can easily be design as a 10mph one way cobblestone road with calming measures, freeing up the "other direction" side of the street for a 2-way bike lane and expanded sidewalks. Larger roads can be redesigned similarly for bike/transit with cars filling in particular niches like delivery of bulk items, etc.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#250

Post by rdtwo »

gsinclair wrote: post #180
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

> Edit: to add on, bikes are like 1-2 orders of magnitude cheaper than cars too, both in upfront and ongoing costs also. It’s super unfortunate that it still gets the stereotype as a “rich white people” activity when it’s really so much more financially accessible than a car. Here’s a theory: road cycling is more available to those who live reasonably close to work and have time to spare, and that is relatively rich…

That and they often work at night when it’s extremely unsafe to bike
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