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Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

mooreds.com

281–290 of 698 posts

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#281
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way? As a lurking user I think it's miles better.

Same here. The old vBulletin / PHPbb format felt positively archaic once I got over the shock of how different the basic interactions are. I can understand some hesitance from people who are naturally wary of infinite scrolling, as the vast majority of implementations are terrible. Where Discourse succeeds, though, is in managing state such that it doesn't feel brittle when you're deep into a thread's history. The de…

> The developers built an infinite scroll that has feature parity with classic pagination, plus the far better UI of a "timeline" scrollbar.

Maybe feature parity with classic pagination from 20 years ago. Discord takes forever to load content when scrolling.

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#282
post #28

As discussed in a recent comment I made [0], I think the problem is that a good modern forum software simply does not exist yet. imo discourse doesn't cut it, feels almost as ephemeral as in slack/discord. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29016033

Zulip [1] is open source and (IMO) fantastic.

[1]: https://github.com/zulip

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#283
post #53

Slack developer here, views are my own. Prior to Slack I spent many years as an OSS maintainer. I also participated in a Slack channel that discussed my OSS tool's general problem space. That Slack workspace was on the free plan, so messages older than 6 months were memory-holed. In practice that wasn't too big of an issue. Most developers understood that GitHub was the place for concrete actionable things and long-t…

As an end user, I find that in practice most projects don't actually move any information to a suitable spot.

I can't tell you how many times I've Googled an obscure error message and the only two results were the source code where the error came from and that self-hosted, open-source Slack alternative that Google can index. At that point, I already went to check the source code, and when I click the chatroom where the message is supposed to be, I reach some kind of archived page that's clearly at completely the wrong place in the chatroom history with no way to find what I was actually looking for.

At least the open source clone is searchable, so many troubleshooting could've been avoided if people had used forums rather than Slack/Discord/Mattermost for "support forums".

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I constantly run into this problem, I've used my google voice number for everything for years (yeah it's not a great move but very hard to migrate away from) and a frustrating number of services recently have been rejecting it for verification. I end up having to take the sim out of my laptop and put it in my PinePhone. It's such a hassle. This whole "you're not a human unless you have a phone number" thing sucks. Sa…

Just a couple of days ago, I signed in to a gmail account using the correct username and password. Gmail intercepted me and claimed to be worried that they couldn't recognize the device I was using. According to the flow, they wanted me to verify my identity in one of three ways: (1) I could verify the backup email address associated with the account; (2) if unable to do that, I could provide the 2FA code sent to tha…

>if unable to do that, I could provide the 2FA code sent to that same backup email address (how would I be able to know this without being able to know what the address was?)

I am one of those people using option 2, by virtue of keeping a lot of old email accounts that I have set up to forward to my main account. So I don't usually need to remember which account if was, and just wait for the email to come through from the void

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#285
post #182

Please don't ask people to run non-free software to participate in your open source community. Many open source / free software enthusiasts are reluctant to use them, or flat out boycott them. What's more, you are putting your worthy community somewhere out of your control if you do this. Slack and Discord are not cool and do not make your project cool. They make your project unreachable , now and in the future (arch…

>They make your project unreachable, now and in the future (archives). You won't be able to trace the history of your project when you will want to do it.

That has nothing to do with the software being open source or not, it's a question of whether you have a robust archival system in place.

I use open source software for plenty of things but most of it will at some point be lost to the ether because nobody's backing anything up

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#286
post #28

As discussed in a recent comment I made [0], I think the problem is that a good modern forum software simply does not exist yet. imo discourse doesn't cut it, feels almost as ephemeral as in slack/discord. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29016033

Development of high-quality forum software is something I have considered undertaking.

Hypothetically, If one were to offer something that was hosted and provided a trivial one-click sqlite export facility, would HN generally agree to participate in that sort of ecosystem? A public webhook could be exposed so that enterprising users could build their own replicas or other event-sourced systems on top... Account management would be simple and robust. PBKDF2 scheme over unconstrained passwords with optional 2nd factor of user's choice. All account facts aside from the primary key, email address, hash, salt and iteration count would reside in the public domain, so compliance with regs simply involves allowing the user to remove these items from the system. 1 simple button with a "are you sure" and that's that. The only traces are everything you knowingly placed in the public domain.

So, we are just talking about plaintext/markdown here, right? Hackernews comment-tier feature set, but threads stay around forever like reddit? This really doesn't seem like rocket science. Maybe add a tagging/labeling system like GitHub has so that users can quickly go lateral on related topics or comments?

I feel you could take what HN has and add another 5-10% unicorn dust on top and have the best forum solution on earth. Keeping the tools heavily constrained and simple is the key to success here. Twitter is a good example of both. Look at the quality of conversation on HN. Arguably unparalleled as-is. What if these awesome conversation threads just kept going after the initial 24h? Wouldn't that be incredible?

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#287
post #112
post #70

Oh please do. This seems like the perfect time to bring this up: I had a piece of software that used Discord for support. They required that users be verified, which requires you to give you phone number to Discord. I gave them my Google Voice number, which is the only number I have, and they rejected it because they don't support VOIP numbers. I asked them if there was any other way to verify my identity. They told…

Phone verification can certainly be annoying, but anyone who's been part of large Discord communities will know that spambots that DM users with all kinds of scams are a huge issue. Phone verification stops someone from raiding a server with it enabled with hundreds of bot accounts. As for VOIP numbers not being allowed, that also makes sense; VOIP numbers are extremely cheap and allowing them to be used would defeat…

Phone verification would be fine if discord had support for multiple accounts/identities. It's a fundamentally important feature of any online social service to be able to retain privacy and have different identities for different purposes. Discord makes this very difficult.

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to see a forum software that works as well as vBulletin and the clones of that did in the early to mid 2000s. Everything today is this weird "conversation" view and comments/threads constantly move around based on the whims of a voting audience.

https://xenforo.com/ — Paradox Interactive uses it for their Stellaris/HOI4/EU4/CK3 communities. edit: e.g., https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forums/europa-universal...

I've set up a few instances of xenforo in the past (2013 ish). Really good kit. I didn't know it was still a thing.

Re: Use forums rather than Slack/Discord to support developer community

#290
post #28

As discussed in a recent comment I made [0], I think the problem is that a good modern forum software simply does not exist yet. imo discourse doesn't cut it, feels almost as ephemeral as in slack/discord. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29016033

I've yet to see a forum software that works as well as vBulletin and the clones of that did in the early to mid 2000s. Everything today is this weird "conversation" view and comments/threads constantly move around based on the whims of a voting audience.

errr. in Discourse conversations are strictly chronological, 100% of the time.
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