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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

nytimes.com

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Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#151

Post by kevincrane »

Spooky23 wrote: post #120
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

You have a point, but the Lance Armstrong wannabes make everyone miserable. In my area, they “took over” a popular bike trail and now kids and more casual people are pushed aside. It’s like dealing with serious lap swimmers.

That's fair, but (in my area at least) they're a lot more rare than asshole cars parking in bike lanes or driving too fast. I'd take over-aggressive bikes over thoughtless and negligent drivers any day of the week.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#152

Post by ashtonkem »

nradov wrote: post #107
enriquto wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixed-use paths are an extremely bad idea and dangerous for everybody. I actively avoid them as a pedestrian and as a cyclist. They should all disappear. If ebikes help to accelerate the inevitable dismissal of these stupid mixed-use lanes, so good! A bike-friendly infrastructure is based on three separate networks, for pedestrians, cycles and cars. Each of the three networks must be continuous, reasonably complete a…

That's a nice ideal but it's just not realistic in most existing built up areas. There's literally not enough space for three separate networks without knocking down existing buildings and buying a lot of land through eminent domain. Let's focus on what can actually be achieved with realistic levels of funding.

That’s only true if you presume that demand for roads remain constant. Ideally you’d hope that cycle infrastructure would offset some road use, which would allow the state to reclaim some lanes for cyclists. Given how space inefficient cars are, it wouldn’t require a significant drop in road usage for cyclists to be given all the space they need independent from pedestrians.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#153

Post by sam_bishop »

parineum wrote: post #27
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

I support the efforts to make cities more friendly to cyclist traffic but the increased popularity of both ebikes and electric scooters in downtown areas has made life as a pedestrian and a motorist stressful, especially around closing time. All the things that annoy me about cyclists (running stop signs when driving in the street and driving on the sidewalk are my two biggest annoyances) have gotten worse. Cycling a…

For what it's worth, in the state I live in it is legal for bike riders to treat stop signs as yield signs. It started in Idaho in the 80s and has been adopted by a growing number of states since then.

It's also legal in my state to ride bikes on the sidewalk. That doesn't cause much of a problem for pedestrians because unfortunately there are few bike riders or pedestrians.

I only mention this to make people aware that what's legal depends on where they live.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#154

Post by Steltek »

ashtonkem wrote: post #149
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

I think people should start pushing for cycling infrastructure on fiscal responsibility grounds. A good cycle path system is an extremely cheap way to provide mobility options to a city, all considered.

I'm pretty sure most of the maintenance costs for a bike lane are for repainting it because cars drive over it and wear away the paint.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#155

Post by Johnny555 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #120
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

You have a point, but the Lance Armstrong wannabes make everyone miserable. In my area, they “took over” a popular bike trail and now kids and more casual people are pushed aside. It’s like dealing with serious lap swimmers.

If you think fast cycling "Lance Armstrong wannabes" are bad, wait until the trail is taken over by 30mph eBike riders that not only aren't experienced enough to ride safely at that speed, but they bolted on the eBike drive to a bike that was not intended for that speed.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#156

Post by SavantIdiot »

asdff wrote: post #122

The biggest hurdles with ebikes are their high cost relative to a cheap used bike (nicer ebikes are in used car territory) and likelyhood of theft in an urban area. It would probably help a lot of commutes if people had a safe place to park their bike or ebike at a train station or business or school where it won't be stripped down for parts. Rental scooters and ebikes also suffer from this problem but it doesn't mat…

I'm blown away by how expensive they are and then how many I see.

$5k-$7k for an e-bicycle?

Yes yes yes, I realize enthusiasts pay up to $10-15K for high-end frames and wheels, with full Campy gruppos[1], but eBike buyer's aren't CAT-2 qualifiers.

On a side rant, the price of bikes in general has skyrockted. With so much of the manufacturing happening in China, I would have assumed that the overall costs of bikes would go down and quality would go up since the 80's (when I was really into cycling in my 20's). But the opposite has happened: quality stayed roughly the same and prices went way, way up. (e.g., A Tom Ritchie frame went for about $1.5k in 1984, and that was hand-made.)

[1] Wowzers: today, the campy super record gruppo is $3500. https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/campagnolo-super-record-1...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#157

Post by Angostura »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #123
bink wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're in a weird situation now where I think most people riding e-bikes are doing so illegally on trails and paths. It's not being enforced yet where I live and I fear the push-back when someone inevitably gets hurt.

> I fear the push-back when someone inevitably gets hurt. Which is fascinating and really tells you something about ingroups and outgroups because cyclists are hurt and killed every day by drivers and strangely nobody seems to be that fussed about it.

> nobody seems to be that fussed about it.

Ummm- yes, yes they are.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#158

Post by kristjansson »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #13
ahoy wrote: post #7

I can imagine a world, maybe a generation or 2 from now, where our suburbs have shrunk to a bike-accessible scale. That would really, finally, be a step in the right direction.

I don't think it would take that long, if there were the right policies. Especially if ebikes letting you go 20 mph were the norm, most suburbs aren't so low density that you couldn't have, say, bakeries or small grocery stores within biking distance. That would often require zoning changes, in addition to adding bike paths, but it wouldn't take a whole generation to get done.

We could have bakeries, small groceries, etc. within _walking_ distance right now, if zoning allowed them to be integrated into residential areas, and people didn't expect parking.

Would that we could...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#159

Post by Johnny555 »

ryukafalz wrote: post #49
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

> The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask for the roads to be safer, it gets pushed back as "only biking enthusiasts use the roads now". Yup. Bit like how it's hard to argue for building a bridge by the number of people swimming across the river.

Yup. Bit like how it's hard to argue for building a bridge by the number of people swimming across the river.

It's even worse since the bridge will be built with connecting roadways on both sides so it will be instantly popular.

But often a few bike lanes will be constructed in isolation,t then people will complain "Look, we built these expensive bike lanes to nowhere and no one is even using them!" It takes a rich network of safe bike infrastructure to get average riders to use bikes. At least eBikes make hills less of an impediment.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#160

Post by Steltek »

UnFleshedOne wrote: post #132
cameldrv wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a real problem. IMO, the issue really is that ebikes are too good/too flexible. They are fast enough to get you to work quickly and more comfortably mix with city traffic. The flipside is that they're too fast to mix with pedestrian traffic. If there were some way of limiting speed on mixed use paths, e-bikes would be perfect.

Speed limits is how it is usually done -- cars can all go much faster than most roads allow for and we are mostly fine. Set speed limits and mercilessly fine serious violations, and the problem goes away as far as it will ever be.

Speed limits are effective? Serious enforcement? Surely you must be kidding. Speed limits are a joke everywhere, even school zones during drop off times.

Any reasonable speed limit for a shared use bike path (IMO, <15mph) will be routinely ignored by both e-bikes and roadies.

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