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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

nytimes.com

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Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#101

Post by Arainach »

paiute wrote: post #63
multjoy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove the limiter and pedal assist requirement, you have an electric motorcycle. If you want one of those, then you'll need to be licensed to ride one. Do you want an e-bike you can ride like a bicycle, or do you want an e-bike you can ride like a motorcycle?

only because we have brain dead laws on e bikes. why not 24.5 mph? I see actual electric motorcycles on our bike paths all the time, I have never seen them cause a real problem. People on normal bikes cause all the problems because they have so much invested in their current speed.

Because kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity, and 25mph is 56% more energy which is a huge problem in a collision with a pedestrian or a crash.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain...

It's also a big issue with response time and with the rate pedestrians expect bicycles to be travelling. You shouldn't bike on the sidewalk because no one is looking for vehicles going more than a few miles per hour (walking). You shouldn't bike more than 15mph on trails/lanes shared with pedestrians for similar reasons. 20mph is a tolerable compromise, 25mph is flat out dangerous.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#102

Post by pjmlp »

fh973 wrote: post #6

> ... and have the potential to transform urban transit. Not in Germany. Biking is and will stay irrelevant for daily transport as long as the infrastructure is a joke. Electric propulsion isn't the missing link. Interestingly you'll find holiday areas that have biking infrastructure packed with older people on e-bikes.

And the weather is not inviting to cycle all year anyway.

Maybe there are people that enjoy doing 30 km under heavy rain or negative temperatures with snow, I rather not.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#103

Post by White_Wolf »

paiute wrote: post #63
multjoy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove the limiter and pedal assist requirement, you have an electric motorcycle. If you want one of those, then you'll need to be licensed to ride one. Do you want an e-bike you can ride like a bicycle, or do you want an e-bike you can ride like a motorcycle?

only because we have brain dead laws on e bikes. why not 24.5 mph? I see actual electric motorcycles on our bike paths all the time, I have never seen them cause a real problem. People on normal bikes cause all the problems because they have so much invested in their current speed.

tbh I wouldn't mind the peed limit being higher but introduce some sort of driving lic and exam for it with periodic re-testing. Also re-testing should be mandatory for car drivers too. Both theory, practical, reflex testing.

I ride a bicycle, bike and drive a car and the ammount of crazies on all sides leaves me speachless sometimes. I see cyclist cutting off cars and shooting into a roundabout just because cars will avoid them. I actually had a crash becasue of a retard like this and I chased him until I caught him. Took him to court and won.

On the other side of the coin - I see cars taking turns without checking their mirrors, overtaking while in a queue without making sure no cyclists are passing by. Smashed a bike to bits because of 1 twat. His insurance paid for the bike and treatment.

P.S. I'm not a perfect driver but people these days lack consideration and defensive driving(even the notion of it is foreign now)

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#104

Post by stefan_ »

parineum wrote: post #67
TulliusCicero wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's generally because of terrible infrastructure. Lanes designed for cars are everywhere. Most cities, sidewalks are just about everywhere. What percentage of streets have physically separated lanes for biking, the way we have them for walking? Bikes don't fit well with pedestrians or cars, and painted bike lanes are a joke -- imagine if you replaced every sidewalk with "painted walk lanes". In places where there…

You're not going to get any push back from me that bike lanes aren't plentiful or especially safe. The push back you get from me is that "the streets are dangerous" isn't an excuse to make sidewalks dangerous.

Half the people that you "share the road" with in your metal box think that is exclusively where bikes must ride? This is getting a bit schizophrenic.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#105

Post by woodruffw »

paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies.

I'm a daily cyclist (18-20 miles round trip for work) and I don't know which one annoys me more: the lycra yuppie who wants to race me, or the e-bike Patagonia vest financebro yuppie who salmons[1] me while screaming through his AirPods :-)

[1]: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/05/15/3124556...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#106

Post by stevejb »

enriquto wrote: post #94
TrevorJ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cuts both ways. I am lucky enough to live in an area with an EXTENSIVE system of mixed-use trails for bikes and pedestrians. I worry that e-bikes, which are potentially much less pedestrian-friendly, will lead to a pushback against bikes being used on these trials at all.

Mixed-use paths are an extremely bad idea and dangerous for everybody. I actively avoid them as a pedestrian and as a cyclist. They should all disappear. If ebikes help to accelerate the inevitable dismissal of these stupid mixed-use lanes, so good! A bike-friendly infrastructure is based on three separate networks, for pedestrians, cycles and cars. Each of the three networks must be continuous, reasonably complete a…

Not sure why you're downvoted on this. I used to live near a very popular mixed-use bike trail, and walking with my kids there was really unpleasant. There were some cyclists who would go really fast and not slow down at all, and I had little kids who might see a butterfly and move unpredictably. It was bad for everyone.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#107

Post by nradov »

enriquto wrote: post #94
TrevorJ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cuts both ways. I am lucky enough to live in an area with an EXTENSIVE system of mixed-use trails for bikes and pedestrians. I worry that e-bikes, which are potentially much less pedestrian-friendly, will lead to a pushback against bikes being used on these trials at all.

Mixed-use paths are an extremely bad idea and dangerous for everybody. I actively avoid them as a pedestrian and as a cyclist. They should all disappear. If ebikes help to accelerate the inevitable dismissal of these stupid mixed-use lanes, so good! A bike-friendly infrastructure is based on three separate networks, for pedestrians, cycles and cars. Each of the three networks must be continuous, reasonably complete a…

That's a nice ideal but it's just not realistic in most existing built up areas. There's literally not enough space for three separate networks without knocking down existing buildings and buying a lot of land through eminent domain. Let's focus on what can actually be achieved with realistic levels of funding.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#108

Post by Rapzid »

bch wrote: post #68
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

> people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies I don’t know who “those people” are, or what regional politics are at play, but that doesn’t pass my “smell test”. How about deploying “think about the children” here for something that increases exercise and happiness, mobility, fosters growth… it’s not even contentious with respect to (e.g.) civil liberties. I suspect the answer is people j…

Where I'm at there is a major project to overhaul a road, let's call it "Broadway", with conservation drainage, walkability(like 10ft wide sidewalks), medians, trees, and bike paths.

The project kept getting derailed due to bicycle special interests having a literal fit because a section of the road was too narrow to have the walkable sidewalks(priority number 1), the cycle lanes with adequate safety, and not congest the rest of the road. A consulting company made recommendations based on traffic simulations and the requirements to have the bicycle route go off onto a parallel side street through this section.

Oh man, what a shit show it turned into. But most of the pushback against what the cyclist special interests wanted(lanes through this section, fuck everything else) had to do with the practicalities of balancing the requirements. Not the meme arguments people who hate cars often throw out as scarecrows.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#109

Post by jzymbaluk »

Robotbeat wrote: post #31

They also don’t last as long (miles-wise, possibly time-wise as well?), so you may have the same person buying multiple bikes over time when the first one wears out or breaks or is stolen. Usually for electric cars, the vehicle enters the used market and doesn’t leave (for the junkyard) until 15-20 years and 200,000 miles later.

With regular maintenance and replacable batteries, I don't really see any reason an average eBike wouldn't last for many years

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#110

Post by dan-robertson »

enriquto wrote: post #94
TrevorJ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cuts both ways. I am lucky enough to live in an area with an EXTENSIVE system of mixed-use trails for bikes and pedestrians. I worry that e-bikes, which are potentially much less pedestrian-friendly, will lead to a pushback against bikes being used on these trials at all.

Mixed-use paths are an extremely bad idea and dangerous for everybody. I actively avoid them as a pedestrian and as a cyclist. They should all disappear. If ebikes help to accelerate the inevitable dismissal of these stupid mixed-use lanes, so good! A bike-friendly infrastructure is based on three separate networks, for pedestrians, cycles and cars. Each of the three networks must be continuous, reasonably complete a…

I think I mostly disagree. But this probably depends on the definition of cyclist. If these path users are lycra-clad individuals trying to go as fast as they can and desperately trying not to lose momentum, the experience will be poor. Similarly if you have e-bike users who are basically taking silent mopeds down a trail and swerving between people things won’t go well. But if it’s someone who is not obsessed with speed just trying to go from one place to the next on a wide path it’s probably fine. E-bikes are an advantage here because they remove the incentive to avoid slowing down to preserve momentum.

Ultimately it depends on the cycling culture in a place and a lot of that depends on whom cycling is available to. If it is more accessible you will probably find people acting more sensibly and more like pedestrians.

A mixed use trail can provide refuge from busy roads. This is much more important if roads are awful for cyclists and I this can often be the case in some parts of the world. If roads are good for cyclists then the obnoxious people who would otherwise endanger those on the trail will be happier going faster and straighter along the roads. But they will only get better if cycling is more popular which will only happen if it is more accessible.

I think mixed use paths are not particularly bad and are also necessary on the way to better infrastructure.

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