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Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

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Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#21

Post by MauranKilom »

bool3max wrote: post #15
kayson wrote: post #12

Has anyone ever done an a analysis on whether Denuvo (or DRM in general) is actually a wise investment of capital? I imagine it probably does have some impact on early sales in that it will prevent early customers from pirating to try it rather than buying it. But at the same time, you have things like Steam's return policy, the general dislike of DRM, and the publicity/image cost when something happens preventing ev…

If it wasn't a vise investment, publishers and developers of AAA titles wouldn't invest in it. But they do.

As phrased, that's a weak argument. Whoever is calling the shots will have some bias and weigh different conceivable outcomes in a subjective manner that an outside observer may consider unsound. I mean, "publishers and developers of AAA titles" also somehow brought us the disastrous releases of No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk 2077. Or any of the PR disasters of $random_AAA_game.

I agree that it's overwhelmingly likely that someone ran the numbers about using DRM at these companies. But it's not unlikely that they over- or under-estimated certain factors. They will have more information than we do, but certainly not perfect information (see also above).

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#22

Post by CommieBobDole »

bool3max wrote: post #15
kayson wrote: post #12

Has anyone ever done an a analysis on whether Denuvo (or DRM in general) is actually a wise investment of capital? I imagine it probably does have some impact on early sales in that it will prevent early customers from pirating to try it rather than buying it. But at the same time, you have things like Steam's return policy, the general dislike of DRM, and the publicity/image cost when something happens preventing ev…

If it wasn't a vise investment, publishers and developers of AAA titles wouldn't invest in it. But they do.

That doesn't really follow. Companies are run by people, and people have a bit of a history of doing unwise things, often repeatedly.

I would suspect that it probably offers some reduction in casual piracy around release time (as compared to a game with no DRM that you can install anywhere you want as many times as you want with no need to work around anything), though that's probably hard to measure since there's no control group for AAA titles - most of them have some sort of DRM.

The downside is it probably causes significant damage to customer goodwill and willingness to buy future titles, but from the companies' perspective, that's both really hard to measure and it applies to financial results for future quarters, not this quarter, so it might as well not exist.

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#23

Post by tomc1985 »

bool3max wrote: post #15
kayson wrote: post #12

Has anyone ever done an a analysis on whether Denuvo (or DRM in general) is actually a wise investment of capital? I imagine it probably does have some impact on early sales in that it will prevent early customers from pirating to try it rather than buying it. But at the same time, you have things like Steam's return policy, the general dislike of DRM, and the publicity/image cost when something happens preventing ev…

If it wasn't a vise investment, publishers and developers of AAA titles wouldn't invest in it. But they do.

I love this assumption that those actors are rational

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#24

Post by dageshi »

kayson wrote: post #12

Has anyone ever done an a analysis on whether Denuvo (or DRM in general) is actually a wise investment of capital? I imagine it probably does have some impact on early sales in that it will prevent early customers from pirating to try it rather than buying it. But at the same time, you have things like Steam's return policy, the general dislike of DRM, and the publicity/image cost when something happens preventing ev…

It's really only to protect the launch window. Most games will be discounted later on to the point where they're more or less affordable to everyone. But if someone pirates on release they'll never be inclined to buy at that lower price later on.

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#25

Post by WmyEE0UsWAwC2i »

DRM doesn't work in games, go to a torrent site to see all the failed attempts.

    1. It costs money
    2. It makes the product worse(slower, less portable,etc...) for your _ paying _ customers.
    3. It doesn't work if the game is good.
Just add a copyright note on the corner and make sure to have good distribution.

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#26

Post by GuB-42 »

kayson wrote: post #12

Has anyone ever done an a analysis on whether Denuvo (or DRM in general) is actually a wise investment of capital? I imagine it probably does have some impact on early sales in that it will prevent early customers from pirating to try it rather than buying it. But at the same time, you have things like Steam's return policy, the general dislike of DRM, and the publicity/image cost when something happens preventing ev…

Well used, Denuvo is not that bad. It is misuse that cause games to become slow or unplayable. And generally, it only serves to protect the first few months of sales, it is not uncommon to strip out DRM after that.

Indie games often don't need it (and don't do it). AAA games are a different story. Including DRM is a significant expense in a low budget game, these games are usually cheaper, and people are often more sympathetic to small studios. Also, indie games need exposure first, and they get at least that from pirate copies, AAA games rely on advertising for that and run close to market saturation so pirate copies are more of an opportunity cost.

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#27

Post by jackorange »

kuroguro wrote: post #16
JCWasmx86 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Following the failure to renew, the domain then went into a grace period but when that expired too, it appears to have been removed from DNS records.

Oh wow, didn't see that. How did nobody notice... Well there should still be a redemption and "pending delete" period [0]. I believe the original owner can still reclaim during those. [0] https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/dns/glossary/expired-dom...

That's right. After grace period it goes into a period called redemption where they can still get it back but it cost like $120.

Source: Used to work at registrar.

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#28

Post by tialaramex »

MauranKilom wrote: post #21
bool3max wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't a vise investment, publishers and developers of AAA titles wouldn't invest in it. But they do.

As phrased, that's a weak argument. Whoever is calling the shots will have some bias and weigh different conceivable outcomes in a subjective manner that an outside observer may consider unsound. I mean, "publishers and developers of AAA titles" also somehow brought us the disastrous releases of No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk 2077. Or any of the PR disasters of $random_AAA_game. I agree that it's overwhelmingly likely tha…

> I agree that it's overwhelmingly likely that someone ran the numbers about using DRM at these companies.

I wouldn't even go that far. It's very rare for anybody to run the numbers. Humans are too lazy. At most they'll eyeball it. Unless somebody requires hard numbers and they start digging up your process so that it's easier to actually do it than to fake it, no "running the numbers" will happen.

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#29

Post by nitwit005 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

> After sending a set of questions to two of our usual contacts at the company, we received a pair of automated emails stating that our correspondence was “undeliverable”, that the messages had been “bounced by administrator” and as a result had permanently failed. Wtf? What ever happened to journalistic principles like protecting your sources?!

In what way is saying emails bounced endangering their sources?

Re: Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires

#30

Post by White_Wolf »

Mindwipe wrote: post #11
skyeto wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that depend on local laws? My assumption is that it would be covered by the recent EU court ruling that allows reverse engineering to fix bugs[0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28809559

It definitely would not be because that ruling does not overrule other bits of legislation, such as the prohibition against distribution or importation of tools to circumvent technical protection measure that all EU countries have.

it does if the software is not working(like in this case). "the legitimate purchaser of a program is entitled to decompile that program in order to correct errors affecting its operation"

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f5b1193c-f423...

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