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Ask stupid questions as a new software developer

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Re: Ask stupid questions as a new software developer

#81

Post by xtiansimon »

onion2k wrote: post #28
mceachen wrote: post #3

Please ask me any question, regardless of how dumb you think it will make you look, after you've spent at least 5 minutes trying to answer it yourself. Bonus Points if you summarize your quick research efforts. Extra Bonus Points if this leads to more questions. (Caveat emptor: _many_ engineers are decidedly antisocial, but if you show that you did prior research before asking, you're showing to them that you value t…

Very often you won't get that upfront research because juniors don't have the knowledge necessary to even start looking for themselves. Because you expect them to come to you with evidence before they ask you, your devs will just avoid asking you and spend hours wasting time instead. Any minimum requirements are a barrier. Barriers are bad for learning. You need to welcome questions even from people who have apparent…

These two comments summarize my experience as a self-taught programmer. Let me explain.

I discovered StackOverflow and conformed to it’s rules, which closely match the first comment.

When I get stuck and my questions receive little or no attention, I start with the assumption that I don’t know enough to ask a good question, or my approach is unconventional.

It’s then that I go to a more discursive community like Reddit. That was, until, COVID made my local Python MeetUp group go onto Discord where I can participate much more often.

Discord is the forum where your research and effort is valued and appreciated, but not absolutely necessary. This seems to match the second comment.

You can’t expect to receive a definite answer, but you can have an extemporaneous discussion and learn more common, orthodox solutions missing from your knowledge and experience.

YMMV

Re: Ask stupid questions as a new software developer

#82

Post by hutzlibu »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #80
hutzlibu wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If someone asks a question I can easily answer; even if they are being “lazy” (which I believe to be an overused, and misunderstood word), or even trolling, I answer it in good faith. If I don’t have time, I say “I’m not able to answer that, right now,” or simply ignore it, if I can do so, in a way that does not come across as judgmental." That is a nice habit, but I actually think I have the right to sometimes answ…

Oh, I have the right (and linguistic skill) to be dick majuere . But, like so many of these “rights,” I should also expect to be held to account, and suffer consequences, for exercising said “right.” If people see me being cooperative, helpful, and a source of good information, they will develop one type of opinion of me. If they see me as prickly, judgmental, arrogant, and pugilistic, then they will develop another…

"If people see me being cooperative, helpful, and a source of good information, they will develop one type of opinion of me."

Yes, and sometimes that opinion might be: "this is the idiot who does all the work for you, if I just ask him". That would be a significant consequence for you.

I do not know you, nor if you have ever been in that situation, but I've known too many helpful people getting exploited this way - and I have choosen to not try to exploit, nor be exploited.

Re: Ask stupid questions as a new software developer

#83

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

hutzlibu wrote: post #82
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I have the right (and linguistic skill) to be dick majuere . But, like so many of these “rights,” I should also expect to be held to account, and suffer consequences, for exercising said “right.” If people see me being cooperative, helpful, and a source of good information, they will develop one type of opinion of me. If they see me as prickly, judgmental, arrogant, and pugilistic, then they will develop another…

"If people see me being cooperative, helpful, and a source of good information, they will develop one type of opinion of me." Yes, and sometimes that opinion might be: "this is the idiot who does all the work for you, if I just ask him". That would be a significant consequence for you. I do not know you, nor if you have ever been in that situation, but I've known too many helpful people getting exploited this way - a…

> "this is the idiot who does all the work for you, if I just ask him"

Hasn't been a problem for me, so far (and it's been around 35 years). Learning how to respectfully say "no" is an important life skill. Pays dividends way beyond just not being treated as the office Wikipedia.

We seem to have unrealistically low opinions of our peers. I don't know if I've ever worked with anyone that has wanted me (or anyone else) to do their work for them. I have known a number of folks that were "in over their heads," and tried to hide the fact, but it never lasted too long. I guess I've been fortunate.

Re: Ask stupid questions as a new software developer

#84

Post by rramadass »

Here is what i do at every new job where by definition i am the "new" software developer. Note that the below activities are not necessarily sequential;

* Ask for any and all user manual, design and code documentation however incomplete. This could be docs/pdfs/wikis etc. Spend a few days/week on going through this and taking notes.

* Ask a Senior/Knowledgeable developer who has a good idea of the entire System/Codebase for a few hours of his time for a couple of days. Take him to lunch and segue into a "brain dump" of the System. Again take notes. In particular; spend a few hours going over the layout of the codebase and writing down an overview of each component.

* Don't ask questions while doing the above. Your aim is to get an idea of the "lay of the land" as far as the logical/functional and physical design of the system is concerned. Absorb the information and try to form a model/image of the system in your mind.

* Sit with QA or another developer to learn to run and use the system as a end user. I always find this difficult since one needs to have an idea of what the system does before one can understand how to use it.

* Now you have some internal view i.e. logical/functional design and physical codebase layout which you can attempt to map to end user functionality. Start diving into the code, fixing bugs, adding small features to gain understanding and confidence.

* You can now start asking any and all questions and revising your understanding of the system and its code.

Re: Ask stupid questions as a new software developer

#85

Post by junon »

avmich wrote: post #72
junon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very often you won't get that upfront research because juniors don't have the knowledge necessary to even start looking for themselves. Advice for junior devs: Asking "how do I even go about searching for this?" is also a perfect acceptable question. Another format: "how do YOU generally research things?"

For both of those questions peers answering them can choose.. to actually switch to answer some more simple questions - like, what to do in this specific case. They'll even ask for details - "how do I even go about searching for this?" - "the information you need is here", or "how do YOU generally research things?" - "what specifically you want to find?" People aren't perfect.

> People aren't perfect.

I think you misunderstood my intent. I was simply saying that sometimes a junior dev might not even know what question they're trying to ask, or how to go about researching a topic to grok it.

Asking an experienced engineer how they would go about solving something is perfectly acceptable. That's all.

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