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Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

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Re: Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

#11

Post by [deleted] »

afandian wrote: post #10
fredley wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have been selected, by humans, to build flat sheets What? The flat sheets are nothing to do with selection. They are to do with leveraging 'bee space' in the design of hives. Man-made hives include sheets of scaffold at very specific distances to ensure that bees build flat comb. The reason for doing this is easy inspection and management of the hive. They are constrained to do this by leveraging bee space, it…

I'm not making any assertions, but don't you think there's some kind of selective process at work when you're breeding bees in an environment with fixed frames? Like, can they sustain a cluster over winter within the parameters?

[deleted]

Re: Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

#12

Post by Lhiw »

fredley wrote: post #6
dr_dshiv wrote: post #2

> People often comment how quickly escaped managed bees regress to the local wild bees (2-3 years of natural selection weeds out the foreign genes). He is seeing an interesting selection factor: in tree cavities colonised by swarms from conventional hives (yellower bees), the bees build comb differently to the real wild bees. They have been selected, by humans, to build flat sheets – which is not optimal for defence…

> They have been selected, by humans, to build flat sheets What? The flat sheets are nothing to do with selection. They are to do with leveraging 'bee space' in the design of hives. Man-made hives include sheets of scaffold at very specific distances to ensure that bees build flat comb. The reason for doing this is easy inspection and management of the hive. They are constrained to do this by leveraging bee space, it…

Can't you both be right?

They're trained into making flat sheets and then lose the ability or instinct to make non flat sheets?

Re: Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

#15

Post by globalise83 »

bencollier49 wrote: post #9
globalise83 wrote: post #5

About a decade ago, it was possible, for less than £20 per day, to go fly-fishing on the lower lakes and cascade in the Blenheim Palace grounds, including taking home a couple of rainbow trout for the pot directly below the Bladon bridge: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bladon_bridge,_Blenh... . Looking back now, that was some of the best-spent money and time in my life.

Who's the fly fisher who stocked Blenheim with rainbows? That sounds lovely. I didn't think the river Glyme had a wild population? EDIT: Just found this: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/4317952.angling-new-trout...

Yes, that is it. Unfortunately I think it wasn't very commercially successful and the fishery manager moved on. It was actually more expensive than I remember, but still worth every penny.

Re: Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

#16

Post by vanderZwan »

fredley wrote: post #6
dr_dshiv wrote: post #2

> People often comment how quickly escaped managed bees regress to the local wild bees (2-3 years of natural selection weeds out the foreign genes). He is seeing an interesting selection factor: in tree cavities colonised by swarms from conventional hives (yellower bees), the bees build comb differently to the real wild bees. They have been selected, by humans, to build flat sheets – which is not optimal for defence…

> They have been selected, by humans, to build flat sheets What? The flat sheets are nothing to do with selection. They are to do with leveraging 'bee space' in the design of hives. Man-made hives include sheets of scaffold at very specific distances to ensure that bees build flat comb. The reason for doing this is easy inspection and management of the hive. They are constrained to do this by leveraging bee space, it…

Surely that would produce selection pressure for favoring bees that naturally follow those constraints over those that ignore them though?

Also, assuming his observations are valid, how else would you explain the differences between wild and commercial bees?

Re: Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

#17

Post by globalise83 »

dkarp wrote: post #8
globalise83 wrote: post #5

About a decade ago, it was possible, for less than £20 per day, to go fly-fishing on the lower lakes and cascade in the Blenheim Palace grounds, including taking home a couple of rainbow trout for the pot directly below the Bladon bridge: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bladon_bridge,_Blenh... . Looking back now, that was some of the best-spent money and time in my life.

Is it no longer possible? Sounds nice

Unfortunately it shut down after a year or two. Never really saw anyone else there. On one occasion I spent too long on the water and to get back to my car in Woodstock I took a short cross directly across the now-closed Palace gardens. Firstly I was accosted by a retired Gurkha security guard, and then I met the Duke himself near the gate - fortunately he was merely bemused rather than angry.

Re: Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

#19

Post by kpgraham »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #2

> People often comment how quickly escaped managed bees regress to the local wild bees (2-3 years of natural selection weeds out the foreign genes). He is seeing an interesting selection factor: in tree cavities colonised by swarms from conventional hives (yellower bees), the bees build comb differently to the real wild bees. They have been selected, by humans, to build flat sheets – which is not optimal for defence…

A beekeeper here.

1. Bees have only been kept in flat frames for less than 200 years which would not be enough time to select for such a specific trait.

2. Domestic bees that swarm and find homes in hollow trees or gaps in houses form blobby swirls of what beekeepers call 'crazy comb'. The liberated bees create topological forms which are probably much more efficient than flat frames. Flat frames benefit the beekeeper, not so much the bees, and bees will make comb when and where they like.

Re: Ancient bees found in Blenheim palace estate

#20

Post by flurdy »

growt wrote: post #18

I wonder how those bees deal with varroa mites. Many beekeepers believe that "wild hives do not exist" because untreated colonies usually die within a year or two.

The Guardian article does mention that they are Varroa mite resistant, though not how.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/07/no-one-k...

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