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Spiders are much smarter than you think

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Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#191

Post by hermitcrab »

interfixus wrote: post #46
prawn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I leave daddy-long legs in the house because they are no issue to humans (just leave unsightly webs) and can prey on spiders I'd rather not have around - red backs, huntsman, etc. Not sure if they eat white-tailed spiders too, but hopefully - we get a few of them. Anything roaming near the kids' bedrooms gets treated more harshly.

Yes, I have noticed this too. Despite my best intentions and full knowledge that we have none here which can hurt me, I am still shit phobic about spiders. The daddy longlegs are a protected species in my household since I first realized their stunning efficiency as resident security corps.

My wife was terrified of spiders. She want to a hypnotherapy session along with a arachnaphobic friend some years ago. She wasn't completely cured, but has been much better ever since (now calmly asks me to remove my "8 legged friend" instead of freaking out). I think the friend also became significantly less phobic.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#192

Post by climb_stealth »

telesilla wrote: post #150
iscrewyou wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll also love this radiolab episode then: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/octom... I don’t want to spoil it but it’s quite a story.

Fascinating. Thank you. I'll think about this for a few days, it feels. And on topic, I hate small house insects. They bother the hell out of me. So, spiders I treat very well and while not welcoming them in, when discovered I'll find them a new home outside rather than kill them. But then, I don't live in Australia..

Hah, it is actually the same in Australia. It helps to know that the bigger spiders are usually more friendly. The problem then is more that they can be quite quick. Which can be terrifying when trying to capture them to move them outside.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#193

Post by Talanes »

s5300 wrote: post #184
loonster wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I watched her there for a while in her new location, and there is absolutely more than just instinct at play. One could also conclude the opposite. What we perceive as concious thought or emotion is just instinct.

> One could also conclude the opposite. What we perceive as concious thought or emotion is just instinct. Pretty sure this is what doctors said as their justification for not using anesthetic on babies during medical procedures. "Oh, they're just crying and screaming because baby, duh" We now look back at that as being quite a barbaric practice/way of thinking.

But babies don't logically reason that crying is how to express their pain, it is instinct. The error was downplaying instinctive behaviors as separate from the total consciousness. Basically equating all instinctive action to the knee reflex test: harmless reactions that our bodies happen to do, rather than the essential part of our psyche that most instincts are.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#194

Post by dTal »

johnyzee wrote: post #30
mellavora wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get rid of them, too. By gently escorting them out a window. And, like you, I apologize to them and wish them well.

A tip if you are scared of spiders: Trap them in a glass, then slide some hard surface underneath. You can now move the spider (like out a window) while holding it trapped with the lid. This has actually eliminated much of my arachnophobia, since I find myself studying the spider, safely confined inside the glass before letting it out. (This is actually one way they treat phobias clinically, a kind of desensitization…

I am always scared of injuring the spider with the slide method. I have hit upon a method which is much simpler, and rather satisfying to execute.

Wait until the spider is stationary. Put the glass on its side with the mouth directly in front of the spider. Then - tickle the spider's behind. Invariably the spider will panic-run forward, right into the glass. Lift the glass and there you have it! Spiders can't climb the smooth sides so no lid necessary.

I have found that persuading the spider to enter the glass without tickling its behind to be much more challenging for some reason. They sense the trap, or at least that it's a sterile dead end. But startle them, and they'll always run forward in a straight line.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#195

Post by Talanes »

toss1 wrote: post #144
poisonarena wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming very human or even mammalian qualities and constructs like "parents/family/emotion" to invertebrates that have no problem cannibalizing their offspring and mates. If they were big enough they would kill you and your family without any hesitation or emotion.

Yes, and "Rugby players eat their dead" (true story, 1972 plane crash, subject of several books, etc. [1]) Just because you can't readily see the emotion, does not mean it is not there. True to say that 'we don't know if they regret having to eat their young/mates', but saying they don't care is just as much making assumptions as saying they do regret it, merely switching the polarity. It is also possible that eating…

I've always heard that story as a soccer team, and I'm just now realizing it was probably because someone down the line didn't want to explain Rugby to Americans in the 70's.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#196

Post by _carbyau_ »

tomerv wrote: post #25
bryans wrote: post #18

A couple years ago I had an experience with a spider that entirely changed my perspective on them and most insects, and now I make a conscious effort to help them as much as possible, instead of kill or even repel them. This particular spider kept running back and forth between my monitor and a window, and when it'd get to my monitor, it would wave its front legs at me. If I moved to the left, it would run across to…

I used to let spiders live freely in my house, until one time I wanted to go to bed at night and noticed dozens of black spots on the bed cover. I looked up and saw hundreds of tiny spider babies on the ceiling. From then on, whenever I see a spider in the house I get rid of it. Sorry...

No problems from me! My policy is generally live and let live. But once they invade my space I take measures.

Unfortunately, my wife is phobia level scared of spiders. So now if they bother her, by extension that is bothering me, and so I take measures to make sure they don't bother her.

But I motorbike commute every day with webs around my dash/handlebars. I wish my little spider bro good luck every ride.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#197

Post by kuraudoOishii »

AwaAwa wrote: post #59
Levitz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. Animals don't even have the empathy to outright kill a prey before eating it and will have it dismembered, bleeding out and alive no problem. Nature is beautiful but let's not pretend it's caring or loving. Cats play with their food. Spiders liquefy their preys, melting them from the inside out. Crabs eat their newborn offspring. Do any of these feel bad at all about it? No. Find me an animal who went vega…

Human industrial slaughter where animals are trussed up and dismembered and skinned while still conscious (granted due to failures in the stun mechanism, but there isn't much push to monitor assembly line failures) would beg to differ. Or how about male chicks being liquefied and fed back to the chickens? Add to that the kosher/halal slaughter. This idea that all humanity is 'above' base animal behavior is as ridicul…

Please drop the antisemitism

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#198

Post by goldenkey »

mkwarman wrote: post #159
goldenkey wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen similar behavior from garden spiders that I've taken inside before winter. They are afraid at first but eventually warm up to me and let me pet them. Spiders are very cool creatures. An analog of human intelligence, as unique as octopi.

How do you care for a garden spider over winter? The yellow garden spider (argiope aurantia) is probably my favorite spider and I love when one takes up residence in my garden throughout the warmer months. I never considered caring for one when it gets too cold outside and then releasing it when it warms up.

I just put it in my apartment near my computer. They usually make a web from the ceiling and hopefully catch a few things. To be honest, some may die from starvation, because I don't actively buy them any live insects to eat, but I consider that somewhat of a better fate than freezing to death. They usually go missing after a couple months, I never really know if they die or they just end up migrating into a crawlspace or leaving once the winter clears up. I wish them the best though :-/

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#199

Post by bashinator »

loonster wrote: post #111
lux wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience with a spider who had made an egg sack in a precarious spot along our back door that was definitely in hazard's way. I got a stick and a leaf and tried to detach and move her setup to a nearby spot that would be safer. She did not like that. At one point in the move, she got left behind and I ended up with just the egg sack to move. You could feel the panic and protective instinct in her mo…

>I watched her there for a while in her new location, and there is absolutely more than just instinct at play. One could also conclude the opposite. What we perceive as concious thought or emotion is just instinct.

This is something I’ve thought about quite a bit. IMO, emotions are probably the drivers for “instinct”; are nature’s way of getting organisms to do things.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#200

Post by ncmncm »

loonster wrote: post #111
lux wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience with a spider who had made an egg sack in a precarious spot along our back door that was definitely in hazard's way. I got a stick and a leaf and tried to detach and move her setup to a nearby spot that would be safer. She did not like that. At one point in the move, she got left behind and I ended up with just the egg sack to move. You could feel the panic and protective instinct in her mo…

>I watched her there for a while in her new location, and there is absolutely more than just instinct at play. One could also conclude the opposite. What we perceive as concious thought or emotion is just instinct.

"Conscious thought" is an undefined term applied to non-verbal subjects, except where sequential reasoning is demonstrated, and then becomes a metaphysical morass. Emotion is well-defined and interpretable from behavior, and is not the opposite of instinct, but a pathway it operates by.
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