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Don’t do interviews, do discussions
71–80 of 432 posts
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#72I love this thread and the comments in it.
I just had a useless interview with a company that pops up here from time to time. The only thing I liked about the experience was that the itinerary at least tried to make it clear what the key values seemed to be: listening to customers, outcomes, evolving vision. I tried to "map" my experience with their potential customers and how they could think about the "box" and listen and solve.
There's a 10 billion dollar problem in this particular industry and if you take the time to understand customers, it's pretty obvious. I watched first-hand the biggest competitor of this org pivot for this after being around for decades.
The "discussions" I had were not discussions at all. They all seemed rushed. There was no "deep dive" into tech at all.
Next time I interview, I'm going to try a radically different approach: I am going to undershare rather than overshare.
As an interviewer, I'm going to start asking people about cucumbers rather than speak about particular tech or follow some form-based process.
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#73"Discussion interviews" can suck because they're a lie. You're still being examined, and now you have to pretend that you aren't being examined in addition to performing well. Some of my best interviewing experiences have been when as part of the interview I ended up having a discussion about something. But the interview didn't explicitly start with that format in mind. Some of the worst interviewing interviewing exp…
Exactly, if you lead with some obscure or polarizing hobby thinking its a casual discussion its a big mistake
“Hiking, trips to the beach” those are the answers. Any behavioral interview training will say the same
Everyone is lying (or actually boring and unambitious)
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#74I've finally reached a point in my career where I have a great paying job and like it well enough, and really don't give a shit what interviewers think. Paradoxically, I think I interview a lot better. I can steer conversation towards stuff I care about, and if they insist on being annoying, just thank them for their time and leave. Though this might just be a result of being pickier about who I interview with. If no…
>> "honestly I'm really happy where I am, but every man has his price, what can you offer?" does wonders.
I would be very surprised if you say literally this and get results. No self-respecting company or manager is going to invest in talking to you if you describe yourself so overtly mercenary.
Obviously, when you're happy where you are, money is part of the equation to get you to move, but making it seem like the only motivator is super gauche and culture-centric companies (which are the good ones) would hang up on this answer.
So curious - are you actually literally saying this and people aren't hanging up on you?
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#75Depends on the role and the candidate. If I'm hiring for a lower skill position and the candidate has a strong resume I just might want to verify the resume and confirm they have a basic grasp of the relevant skills. If I'm hiring for a high-output FANG job, you bet your ass we're going to the whiteboard. Sure, I hate it too(on either side of the table), but it's not too much to ask to prove that you can think on you…
I'm honestly curious to know. Can you say more about what your current work entails?
HPC programming library. It has to be fast, correct, secure and has strong compatibility guarantees so design decisions can have never ending repercussions.
Previous to this job I laughed at the goofy CS questions asked in interviews. "I've been doing this 30 years and never needed A* or a graph algorithm." I have to retract that statement now. Not that the modern coding interview isn't a little overdone, but there is a point to it.
There's also the question of dedication. When you work on a very driven team you have to show a similar level of drive or you're just going to get burnt. I'm not saying the level of work/life balance is fair or the way it should be, but it's the way it is and it has taken me quite a bit to get used to. It's a toxic environment on many levels. That said, it's by far the most impactful job I've ever had. I'm immensely grateful for the opportunity to contribute 0.0000000001 pct to some amazing work.
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#76> Use "We" instead of "you" because it feels more inclusive and it is. For example, ask a question as "Suppose we have this problem to solve. How would we go about doing that?"
Oh god how much I hate this! It’s misused by (some) managers so much these days, it’s infuriating. For me it has the very opposite effect than the intended inclusivity.
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#77I've finally reached a point in my career where I have a great paying job and like it well enough, and really don't give a shit what interviewers think. Paradoxically, I think I interview a lot better. I can steer conversation towards stuff I care about, and if they insist on being annoying, just thank them for their time and leave. Though this might just be a result of being pickier about who I interview with. If no…
> If nothing else, it's _amazing_ for negotiating. "honestly I'm really happy where I am, but every man has his price, what can you offer?" does wonders My cynical self is thinking whether this is (one of) the reason why young people are preferred in our industry. Young = Less experience in negotiating = lower wage
>> My cynical self is thinking ...
>> Young = Less experience in negotiating = lower wage
Your compensation formula is completely void of the value someone can bring to the table. Young = less experienced, period. In negotiation, sure, but also in the on-the-job skills/experience/maturity. So of course they make less.
If you're a kid out of college competing with thousands of equally green kids, what would be your negotiating leverage? If you are someone 20 years in the industry with unique and proven experience, you can negotiate because you have something to negotiate with - there isn't another you.
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Typical FANG employee... Hates whiteboard interviews until they get into FANG, then thinks that anyone outside of FANG is actually delusional about their skills and must whiteboard to prove themselves worthy of handling the incredibly challenging world which is FANG-engineering. More likely that you've drank the kool aid that you are somehow special and smarter for working at a FANG...
> More likely that you've drank the kool aid that you are somehow special and smarter for working at a FANG... The USD $250K/year compensation, 0 YOE, fresh bachelor grad kool aid. Sure. Sorry, but some people in society are strictly inferior to others — defined by an age-adjusted combination of family, friends, health, finances, and happiness, both current and future trajectory.
Ranking people like this is sickening.
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#79I've finally reached a point in my career where I have a great paying job and like it well enough, and really don't give a shit what interviewers think. Paradoxically, I think I interview a lot better. I can steer conversation towards stuff I care about, and if they insist on being annoying, just thank them for their time and leave. Though this might just be a result of being pickier about who I interview with. If no…
> I can steer conversation towards stuff I care about, and if they insist on being annoying, just thank them for their time and leave. I like this approach. Stops you from being painted into a corner, and if you are, you can still leave with your dignity. Some interviewers can be on such a power trip, which can make things feel pretty horrible for the interviewee.
> Stops you from being painted into a corner, and if you are, you can still leave with your dignity.
Talk about wasting time. You are bothering to do the interview because for one reason or another you're interested in the job.
It's weird to feel good leaving the interview where you somehow saved face for yourself by not answering any of the questions. You just guaranteed that you neither get the job nor learn anything useful for your next set of interviews.
Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions
#80I think the author has not really interviewed in the past couple of months / years. Now-a-days I see interviewers skipping the pleasantries and straight jumping on to LC style questions. In fact, in a lot of companies, the first couple of rounds are online assessments where you try to pound on LC mediums or hards without even talking to anybody else
Do you think this is a response to tech salaries getting higher, and more unqualified people who interview well applying for jobs?
A couple years ago we were hiring data scientists, and started with a chat with the hiring manager, and then at some point a technical evaluation. We attracted business grads and others for the position (in addition to cs folks), and a lot of them talked a good game but couldn't do basic data science stuff. So we ended up switching the process to have some kind of table stakes technical evaluation up front, and then do the interviews.
I don't think it's ideal, but the filter has to be somewhere, and companies want to optimize hiring to cut people as quickly as possible rather than do a bunch of interviews and drop them later.