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Don’t do interviews, do discussions

thinkingthrough.substack.com

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Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#41

Post by SkyPuncher »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #31
CalRobert wrote: post #26

I've finally reached a point in my career where I have a great paying job and like it well enough, and really don't give a shit what interviewers think. Paradoxically, I think I interview a lot better. I can steer conversation towards stuff I care about, and if they insist on being annoying, just thank them for their time and leave. Though this might just be a result of being pickier about who I interview with. If no…

This is the proper way to negotiate. Most people don't do it while they have a job, only when they want one, and it puts them at a serious disadvantage.

The flip side is it will often get you dropped out of most interview funnels since you're likely to be a waste of time.

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#42

Post by kube-system »

jstx1 wrote: post #27
arketyp wrote: post #11

I've been involved in interviews for new hires a couple of years now. I'm pretty sure I could have the interviewee talk about cucumbers for 10 minutes and I could determine if its a good hire or not. It's all about getting insight about how the person thinks.

If I'm kind of stiff in conversations with strangers but decent at programming, does that mean that your company doesn't have a place for me?

Not the OP, but I have a similar experience. Being “stiff in conversations” is not really enough detail to answer the question. I don’t care about whether people are social butterflies. I care about whether they can accomplish the work as a part of a team. I know that sounds cliche but it’s the truth. I just want people who are accepting to feedback, don’t act unprofessionally, and can effectively work in a team.

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#43

Post by throwaway98az8 »

01100011 wrote: post #30

Depends on the role and the candidate. If I'm hiring for a lower skill position and the candidate has a strong resume I just might want to verify the resume and confirm they have a basic grasp of the relevant skills. If I'm hiring for a high-output FANG job, you bet your ass we're going to the whiteboard. Sure, I hate it too(on either side of the table), but it's not too much to ask to prove that you can think on you…

Typical FANG employee... Hates whiteboard interviews until they get into FANG, then thinks that anyone outside of FANG is actually delusional about their skills and must whiteboard to prove themselves worthy of handling the incredibly challenging world which is FANG-engineering.

More likely that you've drank the kool aid that you are somehow special and smarter for working at a FANG...

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#44

Post by neeleshs »

01100011 wrote: post #30

Depends on the role and the candidate. If I'm hiring for a lower skill position and the candidate has a strong resume I just might want to verify the resume and confirm they have a basic grasp of the relevant skills. If I'm hiring for a high-output FANG job, you bet your ass we're going to the whiteboard. Sure, I hate it too(on either side of the table), but it's not too much to ask to prove that you can think on you…

I'm honestly curious to know. Can you say more about what your current work entails?

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#45

Post by austincheney »

The biggest challenge with software interviews is that you don’t know when to lie. The process is maximally biased and so you have maximum incentive to lie. The only reason to not lie is reputation damage in the highly unlikely case you are caught. In the end you are either hired for more money or you are just wasting your time as a candidate.

Most of us really want to be as honest as possible, not just because we are good people, but because went want to ensure maximum compatibility. This is incredibly deceptive in itself because employer compatibility doesn’t really matter. As an employee you do things the company way or you don’t work there.

So, just lie. I really hate that, but there is no reason not to and every reason to do so. It’s just the nature of conforming to system of inherent implicit bias.

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#46

Post by sillysaurusx »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #41
sillysaurusx wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the proper way to negotiate. Most people don't do it while they have a job, only when they want one, and it puts them at a serious disadvantage.

The flip side is it will often get you dropped out of most interview funnels since you're likely to be a waste of time.

Quite the opposite. Companies fight that much harder to get a candidate they know is valuable.

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#47

Post by kube-system »

mattnewton wrote: post #32
CalRobert wrote: post #26

I've finally reached a point in my career where I have a great paying job and like it well enough, and really don't give a shit what interviewers think. Paradoxically, I think I interview a lot better. I can steer conversation towards stuff I care about, and if they insist on being annoying, just thank them for their time and leave. Though this might just be a result of being pickier about who I interview with. If no…

I wonder how much "interviewing" is really testing the kind of performance anxiety that people without other good offers yet have. I experience this too as I not just as I progressed in my career, but even within one batch of interviewing. I've always tried to batch as many interviews as I can. By the third interview I am feeling much less anxious and just perform much better and by the fourth or fifth I am nailing t…

I interview and I explicitly adjust for this in my interviews. Anxiety is not too hard to pick up on, especially if you know family and friends who have it, and I’ll give people the benefit of the doubt in the case that I do notice it.

Many people with social anxiety are excellent writers and I make sure we always have a written portion of our evaluation to give them.

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#48

Post by throwaway67834 »

throwaway98az8 wrote: post #43
01100011 wrote: post #30

Depends on the role and the candidate. If I'm hiring for a lower skill position and the candidate has a strong resume I just might want to verify the resume and confirm they have a basic grasp of the relevant skills. If I'm hiring for a high-output FANG job, you bet your ass we're going to the whiteboard. Sure, I hate it too(on either side of the table), but it's not too much to ask to prove that you can think on you…

Typical FANG employee... Hates whiteboard interviews until they get into FANG, then thinks that anyone outside of FANG is actually delusional about their skills and must whiteboard to prove themselves worthy of handling the incredibly challenging world which is FANG-engineering. More likely that you've drank the kool aid that you are somehow special and smarter for working at a FANG...

Why are you so mad that someone allegedly considers themselves smarter than you?

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#49

Post by tchalla »

In the attempt of bias removal, interviewers now want to ask the same question to everyone and leave the effort to the interviewer. Take for example, the standard behavioural question which is expected to answer in a STAR format [0]. The question will go as "Tell me about a time you did .... ". Now, it all sounds fine and dandy but you are basically offloading everything to the poor interviewee. You want them to (1) think of an instance in their past and (2) think of a good, relevant instance in their career and (3) follow a format for your convenience. I'd say that's a lot of pressure. Even if you want to stick to the STAR format - you can still be consistent and ask the same question with a twist.

"Did you have any conflict at work? Tell me about such situations"

"What was the impact of the conflict?"

"What steps did you take to resolve it?"

"What changed after you took those steps?"

Well, it's the same line of questioning and addresses all needs of the interviewer. Yet, most of them wouldn't do that. It's still a discussion format and win-win.

[0] https://careercenter.lehigh.edu/node/145

Re: Don’t do interviews, do discussions

#50

Post by hfjkdh790sn »

throwaway98az8 wrote: post #43
01100011 wrote: post #30

Depends on the role and the candidate. If I'm hiring for a lower skill position and the candidate has a strong resume I just might want to verify the resume and confirm they have a basic grasp of the relevant skills. If I'm hiring for a high-output FANG job, you bet your ass we're going to the whiteboard. Sure, I hate it too(on either side of the table), but it's not too much to ask to prove that you can think on you…

Typical FANG employee... Hates whiteboard interviews until they get into FANG, then thinks that anyone outside of FANG is actually delusional about their skills and must whiteboard to prove themselves worthy of handling the incredibly challenging world which is FANG-engineering. More likely that you've drank the kool aid that you are somehow special and smarter for working at a FANG...

> More likely that you've drank the kool aid that you are somehow special and smarter for working at a FANG...

The USD $250K/year compensation, 0 YOE, fresh bachelor grad kool aid. Sure.

Sorry, but some people in society are strictly inferior to others — defined by an age-adjusted combination of family, friends, health, finances, and happiness, both current and future trajectory.

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