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Elite Underproduction

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Re: Elite Underproduction

#101

Post by DevKoala »

thanhhaimai wrote: post #84
DevKoala wrote: post #82

There are way too many examples to validate the elite overproduction theory. Just right now we don’t have enough skilled trade workers to execute on the infrastructure plan. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/09/us/politics/biden-infrast...

I don't share the same sentiment that we don't have enough talented workers. We just don't have enough workers who are willing to work minimum wage with a $0.5/hour raise year over year.

The article claims there is not enough trained skilled workers which might force the government to delay the execution of the plan and dedicate part of the budget to training people.

Trade jobs require a certain amount of training/experience and pay far above minimum wage. A plumber did a job for me a couple months ago and the guy made six figures a year easily, I asked him. Right now getting any remodeling done in the Bay Area is impossible because there is not enough contractors; availability times are three months in the future and often you get outbid for their time.

Re: Elite Underproduction

#102

Post by kiba »

pydry wrote: post #98
native_samples wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we need more physics research? I guess it depends a lot on how you define physics, but it seems like outside of possibly better silicon nodes, there isn't a whole lot of low hanging fruit in physics at the moment. When physics does get research funding it gets dropped into building giant machines that, at vast expense, have discovered virtually nothing. It feels like right now most areas of academia are consuming…

"There is nothing new left to be discovered in physics now. All that is left is more and more precise measurement." -- Lord Kelvin, 1900

What is the likelihood of discovering a new phenomena or largely unexplored field of science akin to the discovery of electricity and electrochemistry?

There may be a finite amount of works on physics that we can do, or technological niches that we can exploit thanks to discoveries in physics or any relevant field of knowledge.

The well of discoveries isn't running dry today, but it may in future generations.

Re: Elite Underproduction

#103

Post by PaulHoule »

As a physics PhD turned coder I am not sure more physicists would mean more progress in most fields, particularly in fundamental physics and cosmology. In these places experimental results are just too hard to win. For instance, String Theory lumbers on without evidence to confirm or deny it.

There are a few areas where a little boundary crossing might make a difference (e.g. we got 30 years of bogus papers on universal power laws because no physicist ever talked to a statistician) but many areas have run into barriers that seem insurmountable (Chaos theory was stillborn, I think, because there was little reward for hard work cataloging phenomenology when Noether’s and KAMs conserved quantities ran out of steam.)

Re: Elite Underproduction

#104

Post by pydry »

kiba wrote: post #102
pydry wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is nothing new left to be discovered in physics now. All that is left is more and more precise measurement." -- Lord Kelvin, 1900

What is the likelihood of discovering a new phenomena or largely unexplored field of science akin to the discovery of electricity and electrochemistry? There may be a finite amount of works on physics that we can do, or technological niches that we can exploit thanks to discoveries in physics or any relevant field of knowledge. The well of discoveries isn't running dry today, but it may in future generations.

I'd say the likelihood seems a lot higher now than it did in Kelvin's time.

Re: Elite Underproduction

#105

Post by enchiridion »

native_samples wrote: post #90
woodruffw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel's hawkish military (and self-interested, given Palantir's contracts with Defense) positions on China probably put him outside of the pale of "normal" libertarian politics.

Normally libertarianism has an 'exception' for defense because it's a pure commons. There's no obvious way to have private sector military due to the nature of wars and invasions. Indeed, the government having a monopoly on violence is a core part of libertarian thinking.

Yes, libertarians generally define a government as having a monopoly on violence. That does not necessarily mean they think the government should have a monopoly of violence.

Re: Elite Underproduction

#106

Post by amusedcyclist »

thrower123 wrote: post #54
b9a2cab5 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was the case then FAANG wouldn't be filled with Asians and engineers from ex-Soviet countries. The makeup of high paying tech companies does not represent in any way the makeup of the American population. I posit the reason this is the case is American culture and anti-intellectualism. If you look at top public school undergrad programs that don't practice affirmative action (UC's, UW) the programs are almost…

The smartest Americans go into law and medicine and banking, because the expected value is even higher for bright people in those fields than technology.

I don't think thats true anymore, unless you become a partner at a large law firm (very unlikely even for top grads) or are a very specialized surgeon (extremely difficult job) most FAANG level senior developers will out earn you and work far less. Might be true of banking but idk

Re: Elite Underproduction

#107

Post by ch4s3 »

pharmakom wrote: post #25
ch4s3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anarchism-capitalism isn’t a exactly a right wing ideology. It’s really only useful to think of it that way in comparison to the traditional anti-capitalist flavors of anarchism.

Right anarchism and left anarchism only really differ in what they predict the steady state of anarchic conditions would be… and the culture of their advocates I suppose.

That's sort of what I'm driving at. I would note that anarcho-capitalists are not pro social hierarchy which is a central belief in right wing political philosophy. Murray Rothbard described the ideology as being neither of the left nor fo the right, basically saying that self ownership is incompatible with both traditions.

Notwithstanding Thiel isn't and anarcho-capitalist, he seems in practice to be almost a neoconservative. He describes himself as a "conservative libertarian", but has wrapped himself up in the war state and the surveillance industry, both of which are HIGHLY at odds with any kind of libertarianism. Thiel is much more like Liz Cheney than say Ron Paul.

Re: Elite Underproduction

#108

Post by kragen »

robbmorganf wrote: post #79
avsteele wrote: post #30

I disagree with the article's premises and conclusions, my perspective is that of a physicist who also knows many lapsed physicists. The premise seems wrong in that he disagrees with the elite overproduction thesis, but the professions he lists are " lawyers, MBA holders,..." and later to finance. But these are the professions likely to be zero-sum. So to me the article really is "I agree with the elite overproductio…

> overproduction of physics PhDs relative to academic positions available Why are positions researching physics so closely tied to academic positions? We probably don't need too many more physics professors but we sure could use more physics research. Or maybe better physics research. Either way, more/better physics discoveries. That said, our scientific communication channels seem filled to the brink. So maybe we ne…

Maybe what we need is cheaper physics apparatus so you don't need a physics professorship or a big lab to advance the state of human knowledge. You aren't going to scale down the LHC to fit under your bed when you aren't using it, but you could surely fit an XRF, ICP-AES, AFM, and maybe an optical bench in there. For a while I worked at a satellite company whose first cleanroom was made only a few years back by covering the concrete walls with polyethylene film, and a class-10 clean bench that you stick your hands into is within the reach of lots of people. Lots of amateurs have built fusors, but mostly they aren't doing the work necessary to measure reliable, reproducible results, in part because Vixra doesn't offer any incentive to do so. Radio amateurs are one shining exception here, even if most of them are just using store-bought equipment these days.

Re: Elite Underproduction

#109

Post by woodruffw »

native_samples wrote: post #90
woodruffw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel's hawkish military (and self-interested, given Palantir's contracts with Defense) positions on China probably put him outside of the pale of "normal" libertarian politics.

Normally libertarianism has an 'exception' for defense because it's a pure commons. There's no obvious way to have private sector military due to the nature of wars and invasions. Indeed, the government having a monopoly on violence is a core part of libertarian thinking.

> Normally libertarianism has an 'exception' for defense because it's a pure commons. There's no obvious way to have private sector military due to the nature of wars and invasions. Indeed, the government having a monopoly on violence is a core part of libertarian thinking.

This is an entirely parallel subject. The monopoly on violence (which is just a concept in the theory of state, not a uniquely libertarian concept) doesn't imply a hawkish foreign policy outlook. Put another way: the libertarian perspective (even the minarchist variants) don't entail the kind of aggression that Thiel publicly advocates.

Being a hawk on China (e.g., extolling the US MIC to take a more aggressive stance in territorial disputes and information warfare) is a very conservative, not libertarian, position.

Re: Elite Underproduction

#110

Post by BirdieNZ »

slt2021 wrote: post #91
RNCTX wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that was the case then FAANG wouldn't be filled with Asians and engineers from ex-Soviet countries. The makeup of high paying tech companies does not represent in any way the makeup of the American population. I posit the reason this is the case is American culture and anti-intellectualism. In a land where money buys everything, you think culture is the reason why a thing exists or doesn't exist? I think you're…

do you really think that FAANG companies want to pay less? they are already top paying employers, i think you are mistaken

It wasn't that long ago that FAANG got caught for rigging the labour market: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Obviously FAANG (and most companies) want to pay as little as possible for their labour. They don't pay $500,000 for senior engineers because of their innate generosity and desire to pay them well. They pay that much because they have to if they want to attract and retain the employees they are looking for.

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