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Spiders are much smarter than you think

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Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the horrifying thing about humans is we do understand what we’re doing and choose to do it anyways. Spiders kill things to eat them to survive. Humans do it for much more complicated or arbitrary reasons.

I can't speak for spiders but there are plenty of animals that do horrible things for reasons other than eating and surviving. Seals come to mind (with what they do to penguins). Also cats. At the very least, mammals will kill for sport and for status. The biggest difference with humans is scale.

> we do understand what we’re doing and choose to do it anyways

Seems like you glossed right over the most important part of their comment.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#152
Another example if incidental evolution:

(European) jay has a yellow ring around its eye. This makes it easy to check where a jay is looking. So, unlike many other birds, jays pay attention to where you are looking. In an experiment, jays would snatch a treat if an assistant's eyes were looking elsewhere, but would leave it there if assistant's eyes were looking at the treat.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this report, you have roughly 1 in 50 million chance of death by spider. https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(97)70944-X/pdf So I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

Death doesn't have to be a reason to dislike being bit by a spider. A bite from a tiny little brown recluse is no laughing matter.

True. A bad bite, anyway. Most bites are not bad. The Wikipedia article is informative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_recluse_spider#Bite).

My understanding is that most people never see a brown recluse, even within their natural range. Those who do see them probably don't recognize them most of the time, because they're not especially big, because from a distance they look pretty much like any other brownish spider, and beause neither the human nor the spider generally want to get close enough to make a positive identification possible.

But it so happens that I've seen a lot of them, so I offer some trivia about that.

I saw hundreds when I was 12 and my father and brother and I were hired by a neighbor to tear down a shack on his property. It so happened that there were hundreds of recluses in the shack. I know because I was nerdy twelve-year-old with a fascination with wildlife and field guides, and I had a pretty nice little field guide with a good image and description of brown recluses.

I've seen many more of them in the house I live in now. I've been in this house for about fifteen years now. There are a lot of brown recluses living in it. I've seen many dozens of them over the years. The last time my daughter came to visit us, she found four or five of them during the week she was here. She's a little arachnophobic, but not too badly, and the experience hasn't diminished her enthusiasm for visiting We expect her to be back in a few months.

According to Wikipedia and other sources I've read, they rarely bite--generally only when they're being mashed against someone's skin hard enough to frighten them but not hard enough to kill them. When they do bite, it rarely causes any symptoms. When it produces symptoms, they're usually minor--most often sores on the skin; less often some necrosis of the skin.

The bite _can_ cause much more serious symptoms, but that's rare.

I had a bite once living here that might have been from a brown recluse. My doctor was skeptical, because the bite didn't look quite right. It produced a small, tender sore and a really large inflamed area around it. I didn't notice it at all until a relative noticed it on my back. That's consistent with reports of brown recluse bites: most often people don't feel the bite when it happens. Their fangs are quite small--usually they aren't able to pierce fabric--and the venom itself is painless; it's the later effects--if any--that become painful.

At any rate, I and my relatives seem to have reconciled ourselves to living with a large infestation of brown recluses.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#154
Recent and related:

Researchers are discovering surprising capabilities among a group of arachnids - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29066064 - Nov 2021 (24 comments)

Spiders are much smarter than you think - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29048443 - Oct 2021 (1 comment)

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#155
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that we have millions of evolution for living beings, and even us in 2021 aren't the same that were running from Dinosaurs, so it is only natural that other species also enjoy some kind of intelligence, naturally they aren't writing books, however it is a scale from DNA programmed behaviours to some level of self conscience, ability to learn or even develop some kind of culture that is passed across gene…

We never ran from dinousaurs, but it'd have been kind of cool.

"We" as in "mammals", I guess.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#156
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I watched her there for a while in her new location, and there is absolutely more than just instinct at play. One could also conclude the opposite. What we perceive as concious thought or emotion is just instinct.

As a parent I can say that a lot of urges in parenting come from somewhere deep and intuitive, rather than as a result of some higher level erudition on the situation. Still, the urge for care ones young, while not necessarily very - cerebral? - at least creates a feeling of familiarity and connection - ie. empathy. When this empathy comes across from an arthropod to a higher mammal it's still humbling and awe inspir…

It feels like there’s some interplay between instinct/emotion and intelligence/decision-making in the behaviours we’re describing, which I felt was a sign of awareness or consciousness.

I wouldn’t say what I experienced was much more than instinct and making a new web, but the emotional response of a mother protecting its young was relatable across very different species, which is useful for building empathy and respect.

The examples in the article are much more interesting from an intelligence standpoint though.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#157
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SEO has really ruined the internet

This is not about SEO, this newsletter and you may also like serve no purpose for this. It's user acquisition.

SEO gets you in the door, the newsletter gets you coming back, and you may also like pays the bills. It's all related.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#158
post #93
post #18

A couple years ago I had an experience with a spider that entirely changed my perspective on them and most insects, and now I make a conscious effort to help them as much as possible, instead of kill or even repel them. This particular spider kept running back and forth between my monitor and a window, and when it'd get to my monitor, it would wave its front legs at me. If I moved to the left, it would run across to…

There is a Russian (Eastern European? Slavic?) superstition against kill spiders. You can kill insects all day, but you don’t kill spiders. You just leave them be.

I'm Russian and I don't remember anything like that, so even if it is Russian it's fairly obscure

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#159
post #48

One of my school friends walked a different path from me and became a paramedic. He used to have to go to homes in "socioeconomically challenged areas" in order to revive people who had taken substances that they should not have taken - and also other things which were even less good. On one of these trips in a drug hell hole he saw a tank with a spider in it, and he realised that these people were likely mistreating…

I've seen similar behavior from garden spiders that I've taken inside before winter. They are afraid at first but eventually warm up to me and let me pet them. Spiders are very cool creatures. An analog of human intelligence, as unique as octopi.

How do you care for a garden spider over winter? The yellow garden spider (argiope aurantia) is probably my favorite spider and I love when one takes up residence in my garden throughout the warmer months. I never considered caring for one when it gets too cold outside and then releasing it when it warms up.
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