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Spiders are much smarter than you think

knowablemagazine.org

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Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#11

Post by javajosh »

hermitcrab wrote: post #5
fsloth wrote: post #2

Another qurious work describing non-vertebrate cognition was the recent document "My octopus teacher". As a person without deep experience of them and while octopus are known to be smart that document kind of rubs in your face what it means to have such level of talent when they live in their natural habitat instead of an aquarium pool performing party tricks.

If you enjoyed "My octopus teacher" you might also find this book interesting: "OTHER MINDS: The Octopus and the Evolution of Intelligent Life" Godfrey-Smith The last common ancestor between humans and octopus was a flatworm. So their intelligence has evolved comletely separately from ours in a totally different environment. So they are truly an alien intelligence, here on earth.

Does anyone know what the theory is about octupuses being solitary? It seems like a strange place to end up for highly intelligent creatures. (Although, now that I think about it being smart and specializing in/in charge of your own private hunting ground doesn't really sound like such a bad way to live.)

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#12

Post by wruza »

Klaster_1 wrote: post #4

Talking about Portias, I recommend reading "Children of Time" by Adrian Tchaikovsky, it's about the process of uplifting spiders and how humans re-establish contacts with them. Another great book about smart "spiders" is "A Deepness in the Sky" by Vernor Vinge, my favorite in the "Zones of Thought" series.

Idk how it compares to the aforementioned books, but there is also a series of fiction by Colin Wilson “Spider World: …” (1987+). It was a great read when I was a teenager.

The Tower is a novel in which humankind has been reduced to slavery and outlawry by giant spiders in the far future.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#13

Post by malobre »

Klaster_1 wrote: post #4

Talking about Portias, I recommend reading "Children of Time" by Adrian Tchaikovsky, it's about the process of uplifting spiders and how humans re-establish contacts with them. Another great book about smart "spiders" is "A Deepness in the Sky" by Vernor Vinge, my favorite in the "Zones of Thought" series.

I can also recommend "Children of time", it's a really good sci-fi book. There's a sequel called "Children of Ruin", but I can't comment on it as I haven't finished reading it.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#14

Post by wruza »

totorovirus wrote: post #3

Reminds me of an observation that humans developed imagination(seeing that is unseen) from avoiding threats of snakes which were the most dangerous predator to early primates. It required sharp visual skills to distinguish snakes from its ambush, and also imagination (second vision) of snake's potential ambush.

I’ve also seen the video/gif of quickly changed pictures, where after viewing you’re asked to estimate the percentage of spiders and snakes in it. People tend to 50%+, overestimating by an order of magnitude. We are evolutionarily aware of these little fuckers and that trait didn’t come for free.

ps. Can’t find it anywhere, sorry.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#15

Post by meowface »

fsloth wrote: post #2

Another qurious work describing non-vertebrate cognition was the recent document "My octopus teacher". As a person without deep experience of them and while octopus are known to be smart that document kind of rubs in your face what it means to have such level of talent when they live in their natural habitat instead of an aquarium pool performing party tricks.

And imagine if they could live for 80+ years instead of only 3 - 5. Their unusually high intelligence may be related to things like continuous RNA editing. If all of their adaptation mechanisms could evolve to occur over a much longer timespan, who knows what they might become capable of.

Human intelligence develops over a long period; imagine if it all had to be squeezed into 3 - 5 years.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#17

Post by jcims »

meerita wrote: post #10

The portia genus are incredibly smart. I believe it is because its vision system, comparing to other spiders. Watch some videos on youtube and it chills how calculated the hunt is.

They seem to be in a class entirely unto themselves. There is something about the way they move and observe the world that gives them an apparent intellect beyond any other 'bug' I've seen. I used to keep bees and they are amazing in both their individual and collective ability, but it's hard to interact with them. Portia and other in the Salticidae family are almost like little dogs or something. They watch you, seem to make eye contact even, and generally are tolerant of handling and attention. Really cool little critters.

Predictably, the BBC and David Attenborough have some amazing videos about them:

Hunting a spider - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDtlvZGmHYk

Hunting a mantid (you have to watch the end) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wKu13wmHog

Crazy mating ritual - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_udvnFCl7s

Another intense mating ritual - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQbScg3r1oQ

They let you pet them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPo8MG1pJ8w

All of this with a brain of approximately 100,000 neurons.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#18

Post by bryans »

A couple years ago I had an experience with a spider that entirely changed my perspective on them and most insects, and now I make a conscious effort to help them as much as possible, instead of kill or even repel them.

This particular spider kept running back and forth between my monitor and a window, and when it'd get to my monitor, it would wave its front legs at me. If I moved to the left, it would run across to the left side of the monitor and waves it legs again. If I stood up and moved closer to it, it would run back to the window, turn around, and waves its legs at me. From watching YouTube too much, I was always under the impression that this was either a sign of aggression or a defensive stance.

But after a few times of going back and forth like this, I realized there were approximately 50 baby spiders around a light by the window, which had been closed since the previous day. Normally this would be a nightmare for me (I've always had a fear of spiders), but after a while, I had this crazy notion that the spider was trying to get me to open the window. So I did, and it immediately ran to the babies, wrapped a single strand of silk around the old webbing, and started dragging swaths of the babies' webbing toward the window.

I have no idea if the room was just dry and they needed some humidity, or if the food had been too scarce for too long. Whatever it was, that parent spider was in full blown panic mode, and managed to effectively communicate their problem to a human. I haven't killed any spiders or insects since (aside from a few particularly asshole-ish mosquitos), and actually keep small water dishes in my bathroom for two spiders who've now lived with me for nearly a year. If any babies hatch inside and get close to me, I use my phone's flash to guide them back to a corner with a light on -- they are seemingly always drawn to the brightest light source.

Spiders are incredible creatures, and I deeply regret not realizing that sooner.

Re: Spiders are much smarter than you think

#19

Post by pvaldes »

hermitcrab wrote: post #6

It is probably just as well that spiders don't work in groups. A colony of thousands of venomous spiders working together is a terrifying thought (cf the novel "Children of time").

Meanwhile in Texas, Tetragnata guatemaltensis is having a lot of fun in the "burning fly's" international cross-stitch knitters meeting...

https://texashillcountry.com/wp-content/uploads/nature-1-660...

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