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Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

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Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#11

Post by TekMol »

ahartmetz wrote: post #6
TekMol wrote: post #3

On Upwork. I know marketplaces are seen negatively by many here on HN. But I think this approach to work makes total sense. It is just the most logical thing on multiple levels. First, a structured database of supply and demand. Of freelancers with all their skills and of jobs with all their attributes. Second, to have a standard way to collaborate. All invoices look the same, all reporting looks the same. Makes coll…

Isn't the problem with these marketplaces that most projects are for like $5/hour, while rates for "real professionals" are more like $100/hour and (sometimes way) up?

I am not sure if I understand your point correctly. Are you implying that clients only hire beginners on UpWork?

I am hiring there and I certainly have to pay way more than $5 per hour. My experience is that the price for software development starts at about $25/hour. That is for a student with a little bit of experience and rather low morale. Devs with actual work experience start at about $50 per hour. Again, morale will be kinda low at that price. For a really smart, motivated dev with a lot of experience, you have to pay more.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#12

Post by towelpluswater »

jasonswett wrote: post #9

When I used to freelance I divided my marketing activities into two categories: "hunting" and "farming". Hunting tactics include things like responding to job board ads, reaching out to people you know to see if they can help you find a gig, or going to a conference to try to find a new client. Like real hunting, hunting for clients can be fast, but it’s only successful a fraction of the time, and you don’t always ge…

I'd agree. Staff aug roles for individual freelancers are always easier to find, but good luck getting a team of those unless you're a more established firm - plus, the rate and work isn't all that great. We avoid them as much as possible.

Sell project work that's strategic (ie: solving a business problem and coming with a solution), as opposed to 'We need a frontend developer for 12 months'. Better rates, opportunities to work with business instead of IT, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#14

Post by ahartmetz »

TekMol wrote: post #11
ahartmetz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the problem with these marketplaces that most projects are for like $5/hour, while rates for "real professionals" are more like $100/hour and (sometimes way) up?

I am not sure if I understand your point correctly. Are you implying that clients only hire beginners on UpWork? I am hiring there and I certainly have to pay way more than $5 per hour. My experience is that the price for software development starts at about $25/hour. That is for a student with a little bit of experience and rather low morale. Devs with actual work experience start at about $50 per hour. Again, moral…

> Are you implying that clients only hire beginners on UpWork?

Well, low quality work. Yes. But, unlike you, I have only internet hearsay as sources.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#15

Post by iforgetti »

dustingetz wrote: post #5

It's hard because buyers (midsize+ company executives who can spend 1M+/yr) who are good at software don't need outside help, so you're really looking for buyers who are not good at software and they hang out at Medicaid summits, not Javascript meetups. To fix this you need a "rainmaker" and that person is the CEO. Since you don't have that person yet, you need to either market yourself to try to attract that person…

This is the right answer (at least in our case).

I used to be a freelancer and now I run a 180 person development group. Our path was similar to this. In order to become the rainmaker you need to understand the problems the customers are trying to solve and you need to meet a lot of them (think 100x the number you might want to serve). You need to build meaningful connections with each of them. This is a grind so you must learn to enjoy it otherwise you won’t have the stamina.

Additionally you need to be excellent at delivering software.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#16

Post by Grimm1 »

ahartmetz wrote: post #14
TekMol wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if I understand your point correctly. Are you implying that clients only hire beginners on UpWork? I am hiring there and I certainly have to pay way more than $5 per hour. My experience is that the price for software development starts at about $25/hour. That is for a student with a little bit of experience and rather low morale. Devs with actual work experience start at about $50 per hour. Again, moral…

> Are you implying that clients only hire beginners on UpWork? Well, low quality work. Yes. But, unlike you, I have only internet hearsay as sources.

I wound up not taking it because I had something that at the time seemed easier for me, but I negotiated a $100/hr contract on UpWork just fine looking for some part time work to hold me over on something. This was in the Data Engineering space fwiw.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#17

Post by jasonswett »

towelpluswater wrote: post #12
jasonswett wrote: post #9

When I used to freelance I divided my marketing activities into two categories: "hunting" and "farming". Hunting tactics include things like responding to job board ads, reaching out to people you know to see if they can help you find a gig, or going to a conference to try to find a new client. Like real hunting, hunting for clients can be fast, but it’s only successful a fraction of the time, and you don’t always ge…

I'd agree. Staff aug roles for individual freelancers are always easier to find, but good luck getting a team of those unless you're a more established firm - plus, the rate and work isn't all that great. We avoid them as much as possible. Sell project work that's strategic (ie: solving a business problem and coming with a solution), as opposed to 'We need a frontend developer for 12 months'. Better rates, opportunit…

Agreed. Although I think the reason why most freelancers sell staff aug work as opposed to what you might call "strategic project work" is that it's about 100X easier (at least in my experience) to find staff aug work.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#18

Post by dreadpiratebob »

ahartmetz wrote: post #6
TekMol wrote: post #3

On Upwork. I know marketplaces are seen negatively by many here on HN. But I think this approach to work makes total sense. It is just the most logical thing on multiple levels. First, a structured database of supply and demand. Of freelancers with all their skills and of jobs with all their attributes. Second, to have a standard way to collaborate. All invoices look the same, all reporting looks the same. Makes coll…

Isn't the problem with these marketplaces that most projects are for like $5/hour, while rates for "real professionals" are more like $100/hour and (sometimes way) up?

There is most definitely a higher end market on upwork. I freelance part time there, at between $95 and $299 per hour. (The low rate for stuff that buffs my resume, the high one for deep expertise).

I wrote an article about getting decent rates a while back...

https://highestpayinggigs.com/how-to-get-started-on-upwork/

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#19

Post by dustingetz »

ravitation wrote: post #10
dustingetz wrote: post #5

It's hard because buyers (midsize+ company executives who can spend 1M+/yr) who are good at software don't need outside help, so you're really looking for buyers who are not good at software and they hang out at Medicaid summits, not Javascript meetups. To fix this you need a "rainmaker" and that person is the CEO. Since you don't have that person yet, you need to either market yourself to try to attract that person…

This is all true, but the "rainmaker" doesn't have to be the CEO, or just one person, or even work at the company. An alternative is to find an external "rainmaker," an example that I've often seen is small consulting firms that focus on things other than development (e.g. design or organization), or focus on a different type of development (e.g. CAD/CAE), that need reliable partners to bring onto their own projects.…

external rainmakers will exfiltrate huge chunks of cashflow from the company which is almost your entire profit margin, you really want the rainmaker to be paid in equity (in this case, ownership of the quals/brand/trust which is an asset that can be sold)
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