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AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

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Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#91

Post by readams »

daanlo wrote: post #75
d3nj4l wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, they won't do it blatantly, but every thing will be broken in small, barely noticeable ways - just one feature here that uses a chrome-only non standard API, just one invisible div here that destroys performance on Firefox but not on Chrome - that add up to be annoying. I clearly remember when I had to use Google Sheets heavily for work, a bunch of small yet grating bugs pushed me over the edge into using Chrome…

I tried changing the users in our gsuite organization in safari a few years ago. Pretty much a core feature. And it was so broken on safari that I couldn‘t change the users. I don‘t think it was malicious, but still incredibly bad considering gsuite/chrome connection.

Admittedly Safari is like IE of old though, always behind on standards and broken. Apple wants you on native apps.

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#92

Post by petee »

mschuster91 wrote: post #81
petee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe developers could stop designing websites that only work on Chrome too? I'm tired of seeing "your browser is unsupported" and denied access while using a chromium based alternative. Or broken features because someone had to have their bells and whistles

> Or broken features because someone had to have their bells and whistles Like it or not, at least Google blazes ahead and brings new features to the browser sphere. It's not like innovation can be expected from Firefox any more, not with them cutting costs on the development team.

A vast majority of websites do not need bells and whistles, especially when it breaks simple things like links, scrolling, or the back button.

The end effect is a broken, incompatible web.

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#93

Post by petee »

aembleton wrote: post #85
petee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe developers could stop designing websites that only work on Chrome too? I'm tired of seeing "your browser is unsupported" and denied access while using a chromium based alternative. Or broken features because someone had to have their bells and whistles

What websites do that? I'm sure they exist, but I've not come across them on Firefox for a few years now. Certainly not tiring of them.

Im not necessarily talking about Firefox (which i don't use.) Of course on the spot I'm not able to think of a big list, but my bank, the payroll company my employer uses, and Hulu.

Opera is basically Chrome, and supports the same features, but alot of websites will complain to high heaven, or somehow find a way to break a feature due to whatever it thinks the useragent means.

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#94

Post by skinkestek »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #67
skinkestek wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many Firefox downloads a week originates from HN these weeks. Also, recent research has svown me that people on Slashdot doesn't like Google Chrome either.

Every Firefox thread is filled with how sucky Firefox is, too. Might be driving just as many people to stay on Chrome.

Oh well, there's no harm in trying Firefox.

For anybody who are similar to me and has a similar workload, Firefox is still much better, it just isn't order of magnitudes anymore.

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#95

Post by javajosh »

benrapscallion wrote: post #39
ashtonkem wrote: post #30

Honestly at this point, if you trust google you’re a fool. It’s demonstrated itself to be unreliable, capricious, and absolutely willing to break the law if it thinks it can get away with it. Do business with them if you absolutely must, but under no circumstance should you actually trust them.

Seconded. As such, I’ve switched to Safari, DuckDuckGo, and Fastmail. But how does one escape their ubiquitous presence all over the web (Google analytics, ads)??? They’re like a creepy neighbor who keeps following you around.

Firefox and uBlock Origin is a convenient and effective first line of defense.

My personal concern is the smartphone. Apple concerns me less than Google, but not by much. Android has the better potential for full, verifiable independence-from-the-Mothership (via LineageOS, GrapheneOS, F-Droid, ...) but it all feels early, amateurish, almost like an ambitious project that advances only when capable strangers volunteer their spare time.

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#96

Post by pixl97 »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #65
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they can. They have no competition. Like MS in the 90'. Don't worry, in 20 years, all their PR will say they are your best friend again. They will be the underdog for some unforseen reason, and will suddenly call for respecting your private life, encrypting everything and give power to the user. The way MS does it for open source today. It's the circle of life for corporations.

Perhaps now people understand why they were booted from China.

China: "Crushing people under an iron fist is our job, not yours Google"

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#97

Post by dmitriid »

readams wrote: post #91
daanlo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried changing the users in our gsuite organization in safari a few years ago. Pretty much a core feature. And it was so broken on safari that I couldn‘t change the users. I don‘t think it was malicious, but still incredibly bad considering gsuite/chrome connection.

Admittedly Safari is like IE of old though, always behind on standards and broken. Apple wants you on native apps.

This is a narrative (very heavily supported by google btw) that really needs to die.

Safari is decidedly neither behind nor as broken as the narrative suggests.

Safari ships about as many WebAPIs as Firefox does, and no one blames Firefox to be "behind on standards". More, Firefox is increasingly siding with Safari when deciding not to implement certain Chrome-only "standards".

Also see this nice take over at Quirksmode (and follow the links): https://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2021/08/breaking_th...

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#98

Post by pixl97 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #81
petee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe developers could stop designing websites that only work on Chrome too? I'm tired of seeing "your browser is unsupported" and denied access while using a chromium based alternative. Or broken features because someone had to have their bells and whistles

> Or broken features because someone had to have their bells and whistles Like it or not, at least Google blazes ahead and brings new features to the browser sphere. It's not like innovation can be expected from Firefox any more, not with them cutting costs on the development team.

Hmm, I remember hearing this same argument about IE decades ago. Look how that worked out.

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#99

Post by merrywhether »

mschuster91 wrote: post #81
petee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe developers could stop designing websites that only work on Chrome too? I'm tired of seeing "your browser is unsupported" and denied access while using a chromium based alternative. Or broken features because someone had to have their bells and whistles

> Or broken features because someone had to have their bells and whistles Like it or not, at least Google blazes ahead and brings new features to the browser sphere. It's not like innovation can be expected from Firefox any more, not with them cutting costs on the development team.

Keep telling yourself this. AMP, FLoC, Portals, etc are all browser “innovations” too, are you glad those came around? So many of their features are purely to give Google more ad revenue and power over the internet. I’d be willing to bet that the main reason they fund so much non-ad innovation is to overwhelm any potential new-comers to the browser space and stifle competition (even Microsoft gave up). But too many developers buy into the idea that being able to use the newest Array.findLast() API is somehow crucial to the success of their web product and thus help perpetuate the Chrome monoculture.

Re: AMP Has Irreparably Damaged Publishers’ Trust in Google-Led Initiatives

#100

Post by hollerith »

readams wrote: post #91
daanlo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried changing the users in our gsuite organization in safari a few years ago. Pretty much a core feature. And it was so broken on safari that I couldn‘t change the users. I don‘t think it was malicious, but still incredibly bad considering gsuite/chrome connection.

Admittedly Safari is like IE of old though, always behind on standards and broken. Apple wants you on native apps.

>always behind on standards

That's awful!

Why can't we as a society add code to web browsers faster?

ADDED. I use sarcasm very sparingly, but in this case, I can't think of another way to make my point that is not a lot longer.

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