Live data from Hacker News

The promise and paradox of decentralization

thediff.co

71–80 of 98 posts

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tools do you think would work? I've been writing a Reddit clone that uses elected moderators, statistical sampling, and referendums to estimate the result of referendums. I'm curious what tools you think would work well.

it sounds like Secure Scuttlebutt

A big downside with the Scuttlebutt system from a user perspective is that once I post something, it's out there forever. The best I can do is ask my friends to delete their copy of my post.

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Decentralization seems to work well for cases where individuals are privately interacting with other users they already know. It seems much more difficult to solve the problem of public forum websites where anyone can contribute content. But these don't actually need to exist. Decentralization doesn't have to mean a flat hierarchy, it could (against all trends) be a hierarchy with the user at the top, as social med…

What tools do you think would work? I've been writing a Reddit clone that uses elected moderators, statistical sampling, and referendums to estimate the result of referendums. I'm curious what tools you think would work well.

Full transparency of how the system classifies a given person, person is fully annonymous and it's based on reputation alone. Then let ME decide the parameters of what I want to see. Treat it like a decision support system for content. Can be gamed for sure, but give new accounts the base defaults only (like certain subreddits do) and it would eliminate most of this since the barrier to abusing it is very high. Also, teach users that they might sometimes see something weird or bad, be transparent with them. This shielding behavior is like a helicopter parent soccer mom "protecting" their kid. It's annoying there and it's dangerous here.

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#74
post #56

Good article that makes a good faith effort to discuss tradeoffs rather than glorifying or demonizing decentralization. > The first downside to "Anyone can build anything" is that "anyone" means anyone, and the people to whom decentralized systems are the most attractive are the ones who are banned from other systems, often for good reasons. This is an often overlooked point from the user perspective. Decentralizatio…

I think this goes a bit deeper to the actual benefit of decentralised platforms (and open protocols). When the major player in the space goes haywire there is an option to leave. Using Twitter as an example - they are going to be purposefully and continuously ejecting users. As long as the users are people who nobody wanted to listen to anyway then that is fine. But the situation changes because sooner or later (pote…

> [Twitter] are going to be purposefully and continuously ejecting users. As long as the users are people who nobody wanted to listen to anyway then that is fine. > But the situation changes because sooner or later (potentially already happened) Twitter will eject actual community leaders and a community will need to reform somewhere else.

You're saying this as if it's inevitable. It's not. The incentives are aligned to keep all reputable "community leaders" on the platform. If you're concerned about how a market driven organization judges reputability, well, (a) that's a different conversation, and (b) check to see who you're aligned with.

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#75

Good article that makes a good faith effort to discuss tradeoffs rather than glorifying or demonizing decentralization. > The first downside to "Anyone can build anything" is that "anyone" means anyone, and the people to whom decentralized systems are the most attractive are the ones who are banned from other systems, often for good reasons. This is an often overlooked point from the user perspective. Decentralizatio…

> where anyone can contribute content

abuse is a danger if identity is volatile.

If it isn't, things look very different. So put a price on identity, imagine the domain-name for that. And voliá you have reputation building.

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Decentralization seems to work well for cases where individuals are privately interacting with other users they already know. It seems much more difficult to solve the problem of public forum websites where anyone can contribute content. But these don't actually need to exist. Decentralization doesn't have to mean a flat hierarchy, it could (against all trends) be a hierarchy with the user at the top, as social med…

What tools do you think would work? I've been writing a Reddit clone that uses elected moderators, statistical sampling, and referendums to estimate the result of referendums. I'm curious what tools you think would work well.

Can you link to it?

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#77
post #26

Good article that makes a good faith effort to discuss tradeoffs rather than glorifying or demonizing decentralization. > The first downside to "Anyone can build anything" is that "anyone" means anyone, and the people to whom decentralized systems are the most attractive are the ones who are banned from other systems, often for good reasons. This is an often overlooked point from the user perspective. Decentralizatio…

The way I look at it is that deplatforming by the existing centralized platforms is actually a way for them to create a more powerful moat. Any competitor will immediately be inundated by spam, scammers, child porn, trolls, and Nazis to name a few. Since bad drives away good this will make their platform less desirable. The existence of a highly toxic refugee population deters anyone from creating competing networks.…

This has already played out several times with different Reddit clones.

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#78
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to look at federation more than to decentralization. Together with decentralization comes the idea that centralization is bad, which is wrong; centers are good, you just have to protect the sistem from abusive centers, and/or let people choose which center or center of centers they prefer. In an alternare universe facebook has a moderation system users "subscribe to" that warns your client of what con…

Federation, at least the way email, XMPP, the Fediverse, and the production version of Matrix do it, is a half-assed approach to data portability. The biggest problem with it is that, if a formerly-good server goes bad (or goes away entirely), everyone who used it is screwed, because their identity is tied up in the server. This means your most important criteria for choosing a server is stability. In practice, most…

I agree that federation can be implemented badly; with emails the problem is that comunications are federated but identity is not.

A possible half-assed solution would be to have your identity be linked to a public key you can move between servers.

Obviously non-bitcoin-like network will have nodes more important than others on which users will ends up relying. The solution is not to delete any kind of "centricity" but rather to make nodes easy to replace.

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#79
post #23

> The Internet was supposed to be a totally open set of protocols that anyone could interact with, and for a long time it was, That is still true today. Anyone can still open a connection to a socket or make a server-socket available on that particular layer and can expect routing to work. Yet. While it is tempting to equate "the Internet" with the world-wide-web - a term used less and less, they are two very differe…

> The biggest danger to the internet is about control of the underlying networks. That countries can cut themselves off from the internet or monitor all packets being routed in large regions is problematic.

That is a concern, yes, but I don't see it as the biggest one we have today.

The internet is already split up into service silos. Large corporations that service millions of users and control the flow and access to information has the same net effect as countries doing the same, and is much more prevalent today.

Do I care that China or Russia have their own internal networks and services that I can't access? Not really. The language is a bigger barrier in that sense if I cared about that.

I do care about public discourse happening on large private platforms where users have little to no control over the data they share or consume. This is what ultimately decentralization is meant to solve: users being in control of their data.

Re: The promise and paradox of decentralization

#80
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tools do you think would work? I've been writing a Reddit clone that uses elected moderators, statistical sampling, and referendums to estimate the result of referendums. I'm curious what tools you think would work well.

Can you link to it?

It's not done yet. There's a discord link if you want to chat about how to improve it.

https://efficientdemocracy.com

New name needed

Post reply on HN