Contract for Sale of Soul • Hacker News Board

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#51

Post by scollet » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

distortedsignal wrote: post #42

rsyring wrote: post #23

It would be interesting to see the stats on acceptance of this contract if it was used as the terms & conditions of some popular website or the clickwrap agreement on a popular software package.

Wouldn’t be enforceable due to section 3, clauses a and b: > SECTION III. COMPENSATION FOR TRANSFER > A. Buyer agrees to compensate Seller with an amount of no less than ten (10) United States Dollars for the transfer of the Soul within 48 commonly recognized Earth-hours of the receipt of the signed agreement via any medium, physical or electronic, as described in Section II-C, according to the conditions outlined in…

Yeah, where's the open soul software when you need it...

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#52

Post by notadev » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:11 AM UTC

After seeing the episode of The Simpsons where Bart bought Milhouse’s soul, I went to school and did the same thing to my classmates. Most acted like it was no big deal, but still wouldn’t sign “the contract” and the few that did, similar to Milhouse, quickly wanted it back. I couldn’t do it myself.

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#53

Post by mechanical_bear » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

I find this ridiculously improbable that no notarization is required, or at the very least a witness.

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#54

Post by causi » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:41 AM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #44

noduerme wrote: post #41

BS. Satan would never write a contract without a forced arbitration clause. I just realized several other people posted this. But hopefully the devil will take a moment to update before posting this again to HN three months hence. Also not sure why this contract is relevant when everyone's already agreed to Apple and Facebook's TOS.

BS. Satan would never write a contract without a forced arbitration clause. I dunno, you are talking about someone who lost a golden fiddle to some hick kid from Georgia[1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh7BZf7D5Bw

What makes the kid a hick?

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#55

Post by sandworm101 » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:43 AM UTC

clejack wrote: post #14

The most amazing thing about this to me is that as conceptually interesting as this contract is at a high level, and given that I started off interested in the document, about half way through my eyes were glazing over ;and I gave up. I have to wonder how lawyers do their job. I've read chapters of academic text for my own knowledge, but somehow this legal writing style crushes me every time.

This was not written by lawyers. Law students... maybe, but not actual lawyers. It reads like someone who has seen property transfer contracts but hasn't actually used them in the real world to transfer intangibles.

>>Seller agrees to honor the spirit of this agreement

Big red flag there. I have never run across anyone with legal training using "spirit" language.

>>ignorance of any consequences ... will not invalidate the enforceability

More novel language not from any legal treatise. And, by way of further example, a lawyer would have dropped the useless "the" before enforceability.

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#56

Post by chungy » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:43 AM UTC

notadev wrote: post #52

After seeing the episode of The Simpsons where Bart bought Milhouse’s soul, I went to school and did the same thing to my classmates. Most acted like it was no big deal, but still wouldn’t sign “the contract” and the few that did, similar to Milhouse, quickly wanted it back. I couldn’t do it myself.

You actually have the roles reversed. Bart "sold" his soul to Milhouse.

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#57

Post by hn_throwaway_69 » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:46 AM UTC

clejack wrote: post #14

The most amazing thing about this to me is that as conceptually interesting as this contract is at a high level, and given that I started off interested in the document, about half way through my eyes were glazing over ;and I gave up. I have to wonder how lawyers do their job. I've read chapters of academic text for my own knowledge, but somehow this legal writing style crushes me every time.

Lawyer here.

Legalisms don't make for particularly hard contracts.

In the real world, I've found complexity is often caused by attempts to simplify the contract. Or perhaps to simplify its drafting.

The most common offender is the overuse of Definitions which are often Capitalised Definitions. Interestingly in code you might compare it to the use of a function (); except that in the real world you can't easily call a function - you physically have to flick back and forth between pages to understand what the contract means.

The other cause of complexity is when parts of the contract aren't written by lawyers, but by engineers or risk analysts. Which the lawyers will do to simplify their job. I've seen some of these contracts and after weeks I can't understand them. A judge interpreting this contract basically has to become an expert in the relevant subject area. I don't envy them.

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#58

Post by noduerme » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

causi wrote: post #54

mindcrime wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS. Satan would never write a contract without a forced arbitration clause. I dunno, you are talking about someone who lost a golden fiddle to some hick kid from Georgia[1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh7BZf7D5Bw

What makes the kid a hick?

It's implied. Otherwise he'd be playing violin.

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#59

Post by monkeydust » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

couchand wrote: post #22

clejack wrote: post #14

The most amazing thing about this to me is that as conceptually interesting as this contract is at a high level, and given that I started off interested in the document, about half way through my eyes were glazing over ;and I gave up. I have to wonder how lawyers do their job. I've read chapters of academic text for my own knowledge, but somehow this legal writing style crushes me every time.

Think of legal writing as an incredibly wordy programming language and it will make a lot more sense. Lawyers aren't reading this for fun, their brains are decoding how the computer (i.e. judges) will interpret it.

Makes me think of smart contracts.

Re: Contract for Sale of Soul

#60

Post by Xylakant » Sat, Nov 06, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

bartvk wrote: post #43

emodendroket wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently bought a house in California and at some point a few hundred pages in I started to wonder about the wisdom of my insistence on reading everything. But it's straightforward enough to understand if you can tolerate the boredom.

A few hundred pages? Here in The Netherlands, the contract is maybe five pages, then a list of things that will stay in the house and finally a list of Q&A with the current owner about things like the wiring, any easements, etc. It's usually a model contract too, so you can compare your copy to the published model contract. What's in these "few hundred pages"?

My flats contract takes a full binder, the stack is easily 10cm. This is certainly an extreme case since it’s an old building in a compound with pretty complex history, but that happens.