Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Never update anything

blog.kronis.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 288 posts

Re: Never update anything

#151

Post by jart »

Jach wrote: post #146
jart wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac and Linux do the same thing. I know people who still prefer the OSX 10.3 and the GNOME2 GUIs, or for instance the way nytimes.com looked back in 2010. That's the problem with making GUIs the thing you love. Some goons stop by your home every few years and toss up the furniture. Apple is the gold standard since it pretty much looks the same as it did in the 80's and each major version tunes subtle things. Microsof…

People who still prefer GNOME2 GUIs are using MATE, what is the OSX 10.3 lover to do?

I googled for some screenshots and MATE doesn't look like GNOME 2 to me. See https://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=CentOS_5&p=x&f=1 and https://int3ractive.com/blog/2019/things-to-do-after-install... I found some screenshots of MATE desktops from ten years ago. Those did look like GNOME2. However it appears that since then MATE chosen to embrace a new identity too.

Re: Never update anything

#152

Post by bambax »

habeebtc wrote: post #94

Timely. I was recently force upgraded to Win11. Today in fact. Last week I force-downgraded after I got an exception because it is my busy time of year. That exception was not respected and I realized fighting it weekly would be the same time investment as fixing compatibility issues. "What compatibility issues? Win11 is fine, I have had no problems." My coworkers say. Well on Day 1, 2 pretty important pieces of soft…

I hate updates with the fire of a thousand suns. I'm still on Windows 7 and will stay on it for as long as possible. Parts of my PC are from 2010, the case from 1990, the screen from 2007. And you know what? It works.

Re: Never update anything

#153

Post by DeathArrow »

abraxas wrote: post #98

"When your company won't be the first to market, because about 20% of your total development capacity needs to spent on keeping up" In the world of JS and Typescript this ratio looks more like 80%. I swear that node hipsters at my last job spent four out of five of their working days wrangling with dependencies or their transpilers, linters, packagers, bundlers and whatever the hell else needs to happen to actually m…

In .NET I've spent maximum 1 hour updating major versions. Usually is almost nothing to be done.

Re: Never update anything

#154

Post by jart »

kouteiheika wrote: post #140
jart wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac and Linux do the same thing. I know people who still prefer the OSX 10.3 and the GNOME2 GUIs, or for instance the way nytimes.com looked back in 2010. That's the problem with making GUIs the thing you love. Some goons stop by your home every few years and toss up the furniture. Apple is the gold standard since it pretty much looks the same as it did in the 80's and each major version tunes subtle things. Microsof…

> Linux do the same thing. [..] Then there's Linux where each GUI update is a radical break with tradition that continually reinvents its own identity. If you're using a "mainstream" desktop environment (e.g. GNOME), then yeah, but that's not universally true. I've been using exactly the same desktop environment for something like ~12 years; I love Linux because if you set it up right it's essentially zero maintenanc…

The forced changes to the init system and desktop gui are far more radical than anything Microsoft or Apple ever did. The init system change was also due to the GUI people. GNOME told everyone they must adopt SystemD or else you can't use GNOME anymore. It made people so unhappy there were forks, protests, and even suicides. If a system administrator woke up from a 15 year coma, they would have no clue how to use any of this stuff and would have to start over from scratch. How can we as open source developers, present a better alternative to big tech products if we keep dividing and conquering ourselves? To think about how unfair that is to the thousands of volunteers who worked hard to create these desktops and systems and treasure troves of stack overflow answers, that just get swept away two years later, it's a failure of leadership.

Re: Never update anything

#155

Post by forgotmypw17 »

romwell wrote: post #150
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved and lived Windows for a decade and felt so cozy and at home in it, but when the first force-upgrade happened, I knew it was time to move along. Just cannot accept things changing without my consent on my workstation.

>I loved and lived Windows for a decade I know it's probably a typo, but I can't help but imagine the wonderful OS that Windows 6 never was :)

Not sure where the supposed typo is, I started with 3.11, then used 95, NT4, 98, 2k, and around XP/Vista is where I realized it's time to move on because of the increasing upgrade nags and the UI being changed without my consent...

I still stuck around until Windows 7 because I had just grown so into it, was very comfortable with keyboard controls, etc. Then a computer I knew upgraded itself to Windows 8 without being asked to, and started booting into a bsod...

Re: Never update anything

#156

Post by Jach »

jart wrote: post #151
Jach wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who still prefer GNOME2 GUIs are using MATE, what is the OSX 10.3 lover to do?

I googled for some screenshots and MATE doesn't look like GNOME 2 to me. See https://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=CentOS_5&p=x&f=1 and https://int3ractive.com/blog/2019/things-to-do-after-install... I found some screenshots of MATE desktops from ten years ago. Those did look like GNOME2. However it appears that since then MATE chosen to embrace a new identity too.

Look instead at MATE's homepage: https://mate-desktop.org/ Or their screenshots. For Ubuntu MATE, select "Traditional" in your link's step 1. You can also look at the final screenshot of https://learnubuntumate.weebly.com/traditional-menu.html

Sure, MATE has evolved to give more options, and distros seem to like defaulting its look to something non-traditional, but the traditional look is still very GNOME2 and very much alive. I've got an old desktop from 2009 that's run Gentoo the whole time , I never upgraded to GNOME3, but I did switch to MATE when it came out, and haven't had to mess with it since apart from trying out different icon sets or other small theme changes. It looks basically the same as ever, even compared to my old laptop screenshots from 2007 -- I still have my wobbly windows from Compiz (fka Beryl) too.

Re: Never update anything

#157

Post by kabes »

abraxas wrote: post #98

"When your company won't be the first to market, because about 20% of your total development capacity needs to spent on keeping up" In the world of JS and Typescript this ratio looks more like 80%. I swear that node hipsters at my last job spent four out of five of their working days wrangling with dependencies or their transpilers, linters, packagers, bundlers and whatever the hell else needs to happen to actually m…

I do both java and node backend dev and I wrestle way more with maven and java dependencies than with node and npm. The project lead also always wants to try the latest java stuff (quarkus when it just came out, latest java versions, ...) which has lead to many days of obscure bug tracing. So it's really more of developer attitude then about the stack

Re: Never update anything

#158

Post by kabes »

secondaryacct wrote: post #113
abraxas wrote: post #98

"When your company won't be the first to market, because about 20% of your total development capacity needs to spent on keeping up" In the world of JS and Typescript this ratio looks more like 80%. I swear that node hipsters at my last job spent four out of five of their working days wrangling with dependencies or their transpilers, linters, packagers, bundlers and whatever the hell else needs to happen to actually m…

Having always been fullstack even in my current large traditional bank, I see both codebases in Java 6 and maven poms that are a paradise to change (and a java 8 upgrade is often trivial and sufficient to get most of the nice candies you really need), and yarn/npm frontend projects that cant be even rebuilt two weeks later, everyone insanely writing auto updating version descriptor (^2.0.4 with the ^). I cannot under…

If you can't get reproducible builds the team doesn't know how to use lock files properly. Don't go blaming it on the stack.

Re: Never update anything

#159

Post by scoopertrooper »

Waterluvian wrote: post #73
mikeklaas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whoa, do you have a link?

https://imgur.com/dCxh2Dd (sorry. Looks terrible on phones) https://forums.aws.amazon.com/ann.jspa?annID=8499 So obviously I was embellishing the language, but the sentiment remains the same. I found this because I checked the RDS admin panel, which I rarely do. I didn't get an email. It was very alarming to discover and makes me anxious about what other forced upgrades I'll miss. I appreciate the point of this, but…

Easy to blame AWS, but as the post you linked said, Postgres 9.6 is no longer going to be receiving updates from 11 November.

What do you want AWS to do here? Keep running software that won't get security updates? That seems a bit wild to me.

Communication could have been better, but there is no universe in which a managed database provider should be expected to continue to maintain instances with discontinued versions of software.

Why were you still running 9.6 anyway?

https://www.postgresql.org/support/versioning/

Re: Never update anything

#160

Post by shbooms »

gruez wrote: post #116
habeebtc wrote: post #94

Timely. I was recently force upgraded to Win11. Today in fact. Last week I force-downgraded after I got an exception because it is my busy time of year. That exception was not respected and I realized fighting it weekly would be the same time investment as fixing compatibility issues. "What compatibility issues? Win11 is fine, I have had no problems." My coworkers say. Well on Day 1, 2 pretty important pieces of soft…

Why not just get LTSC? You get zero feature updates (ie. the breaking kind) pushed on you, but you still get security updates for up to 10 years.

Last I checked, you need an enterprise license to get the LTSC version of Windows. Individual consumer users can't just purchase it on their own
Post reply on HN