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Timeline of the Human Condition

southampton.ac.uk

111–120 of 121 posts

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#111
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a recency bias. But there's also an absolutely undeniable acceleration in physical and other quantifiable bases (knowledge, understanding, population, global impacts, energy utilisation, raw materials consumption, pollution) through time. For Earth, the very rapid emergence of life (within the first few hundred million years), and then the lack of extensive complexity emerging for another 3 billion years , u…

When I read about the history of science I get the impression that almost everything of interest happened between about 1860 and about 1960. Since then there has been continuous quantitive progress in some areas, such as "Moore's Law", but qualitatively nothing to compare with what happened in the period 1860-1960. It's subjective, of course. Maybe I'm just old and nostalgic.

There's some truth to that, though I'd push the date back a bit, perhaps to Newton or Kepler, when the logjam of appealing to the authority of the ancients (generally Aristotle) was finally and decisively broken.

Vaclav Smil (already mentioned several times in this thread) points to the half-century from 1875--1925 as the peak of invention, and more specifically, the decade of the 1880s. This was the time when discoveries based on electricity, coal-tar chemistry, petroleum, some bits of genetics, and others were coming into the fore. There are very few modern inventions which cannot be traced to this period. (Radio, TV, lasers, microwaves, and genetic engineering are the main exceptions). I see this as a landmark breakthrough in both knowledge and means, the latter largely supplied through the vast untapped energy of fossil fuels.

(Aknowledging their impact and declaring them an unqualified good are two entirely different matters. Yes, they changed our world and made modernity possible. Yes, they will destory that as well if we keep using them, and even if we want to, they will ultimately be exhausted.)

There are a few laws of progress. Moore's refers specifically to network and size effects, and has some foundation in business practices and goals (that is, what we see as "Moore's law" phenomenon is in part driven by the performance and product targets and timelines of firms in the sector). There's also Wright's Law, which refers to the level of improvement seen with additional experience. If memory serves, about a 20% efficiency gain with each doubling of output. (This was noted especially in the US with military output during WWII, especially in the rate of aircraft and ship manufacture.)

There are also scaling laws which refer to the reduction of defects, increases in precision or accuracy, and reduction of downtime. Here, each additional "nine" of performance tends to cost 10x the previous --- a case of rapidly diminishing returns.

On the progress of science, I've only looked into this casually and haven't found a good or suitable measure (itself a fairly deep question --- typical metrics such as patents filed have ... ginormous fucking issues, as a term of art...). But looking at Nobel Prize awards in Physics, Chemistry, and Medicine, what we tend to see is highly foundational discoveries prior to about 1960, and remarkably less so afterwards. In all three cases, I also note a strong presence of detection and measurement discoveries in the post-1960 era, which is to say, discoveries that increase our ability to detect various phenomena, as in remote astronomical measurements, chemical detection, or looking at body or cellular processes. Physics seems especially notable, with the pre-1960 period seeing numerous particles, forces, and principles (quantum mechanics, relativistic effects (but not the Theory of Relativity itself), and basic phenomena such as radiation).

I've got thoughts on that, you might try looking up my past threads on "ontology of technology" --- these are informational mechanisms.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there is a strong cultural bias here. "Timeline of the Human Condition according to one Westerner's interpretation of a couple Western encyclopedias"

I wouldn't be surprised, but in what entries do you see the Western bias? I wonder what I might be getting wrong myself.

China has two (2) mentions within the last 900 years. The great famine and COVID-19.

A third one (BRI 2013) is buried under a mention of the original Silk Roads in 100 BCE.

People's Republic founding is omitted, despite being the first post-colonial/indigenous "superstate". It will certainly be at least as historically consequential as the founding of the USA. No mention of PRC eradicating extreme poverty nor surpassing the USA in GDP PPP.

Reading the timeline, you get the sense that all recent human progress is occurring in the West and the West alone is positioned to address global issues. Which is a very distorted view.

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised, but in what entries do you see the Western bias? I wonder what I might be getting wrong myself.

China has two (2) mentions within the last 900 years. The great famine and COVID-19. A third one (BRI 2013) is buried under a mention of the original Silk Roads in 100 BCE. People's Republic founding is omitted, despite being the first post-colonial/indigenous "superstate". It will certainly be at least as historically consequential as the founding of the USA. No mention of PRC eradicating extreme poverty nor surpass…

> China has two (2) mentions within the last 900 years.

That is certainly absurd! I hadn't looked past about 5,000 yrs ago.

> the first post-colonial/indigenous "superstate"

I've read a good amount of Chinese history and other works, including by Chinese authors (translated), and I haven't heard that idea so I am interested in learning a bit:

Who uses the term? Historians? Political scientists? The CCP? Is it new?

What do you meant by "superstate"? A major power?

Post-colonial: The US, Canada, etc. are post-colonial, former British colonies. If you mean, after the West's period of colonization post-Industrial Revolution, what about India, which was founded a few years before? Japan, which was itself a colonial power (with some horrible consequences)? The post-WWI Middle East?

Finally, I'm not quite sure how 'indigenous' applies. China has been a collection of cultures, enough so that holding it together has always preoccupied whoever was in power. My impression is that it is more like Europe in that sense, including varying local languages, than the US (though different than both).

All those questions don't make it wrong; they are merely what I don't understand.

> It will certainly be at least as historically consequential as the founding of the USA. No mention of PRC eradicating extreme poverty nor surpassing the USA in GDP PPP.

> Reading the timeline, you get the sense that all recent human progress is occurring in the West and the West alone is positioned to address global issues. Which is a very distorted view.

Isn't this as Sino-centric as the timeline is Western-centric? If we know such approaches are factually distorting (you just made a good point about it), and we know also that nationalistic competition leads to catastrophe (WWII being a prominent example), why take them? Do you want to intentionally make the same mistakes as the timeline?

I hope the people of China do great things - not only for themselves, but for the world, and that they have freedom to live their lives as they choose, with health and prosperity. Do better than the colonial powers.

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has two (2) mentions within the last 900 years. The great famine and COVID-19. A third one (BRI 2013) is buried under a mention of the original Silk Roads in 100 BCE. People's Republic founding is omitted, despite being the first post-colonial/indigenous "superstate". It will certainly be at least as historically consequential as the founding of the USA. No mention of PRC eradicating extreme poverty nor surpass…

> China has two (2) mentions within the last 900 years. That is certainly absurd! I hadn't looked past about 5,000 yrs ago. > the first post-colonial/indigenous "superstate" I've read a good amount of Chinese history and other works, including by Chinese authors (translated), and I haven't heard that idea so I am interested in learning a bit: Who uses the term? Historians? Political scientists? The CCP? Is it new? Wh…

> What do you meant by "superstate"? A major power?

I don't know. This is the term used by the OP, hence quotes. If USA is a "superstate" then PRC is one as well.

> Finally, I'm not quite sure how 'indigenous' applies.

China is primarily populated by the same peoples that have lived there for millennia. There was no mass ethnic cleansing as took place in the Americas/Australia/etc.

> Isn't this as Sino-centric as the timeline is Western-centric?

Is it Sino-centric to have a balanced view of human history?

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has two (2) mentions within the last 900 years. That is certainly absurd! I hadn't looked past about 5,000 yrs ago. > the first post-colonial/indigenous "superstate" I've read a good amount of Chinese history and other works, including by Chinese authors (translated), and I haven't heard that idea so I am interested in learning a bit: Who uses the term? Historians? Political scientists? The CCP? Is it new? Wh…

> What do you meant by "superstate"? A major power? I don't know. This is the term used by the OP, hence quotes. If USA is a "superstate" then PRC is one as well. > Finally, I'm not quite sure how 'indigenous' applies. China is primarily populated by the same peoples that have lived there for millennia. There was no mass ethnic cleansing as took place in the Americas/Australia/etc. > Isn't this as Sino-centric as the…

I regret investing my time in trying to understand you when you don't even bother to know what you are saying. Apparently all you have to say is, 'China is better than the West'. Just post that; the rest is BS.

There's much more we can do in the world, but not through ignorance and outrage. You can see right here that we can learn nothing from it, gain no ground.

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#116
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s awfully optimistic. Humans evolved out of nature and into culture— and culture is only a millisecond old on the evolutionary timeline. All evidence points against a Star Trek future and instead a future of perpetual dismal decline. As climate change shows, humans may be clever as individuals but they can’t even compare to ants as an intelligent collective species

That's awfully inaccurate. Some part of human culture has increased quality of life. If you think the opposite, I will provide a list of places and lifestyles that are free of said cultural bits for you to go and experience. With that said, no, progress is not a given, and we have one million and one ways to shoot ourselves in the feet. Both climate change and getting depressed and suicidal about climate change count…

Never did I say anything about culture and quality of life. Don’t make an argument from a false claim. I said nature is highly evolved, but human culture is young and untested, with little evidence for optimism, climate talks one example

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#117
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think humans would evolve in a variety of ways to transcend humanity.

That’s awfully optimistic. Humans evolved out of nature and into culture— and culture is only a millisecond old on the evolutionary timeline. All evidence points against a Star Trek future and instead a future of perpetual dismal decline. As climate change shows, humans may be clever as individuals but they can’t even compare to ants as an intelligent collective species

Maybe the memetics of human infrastructure permeate future generations of the cockroach enlightenment??

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you meant by "superstate"? A major power? I don't know. This is the term used by the OP, hence quotes. If USA is a "superstate" then PRC is one as well. > Finally, I'm not quite sure how 'indigenous' applies. China is primarily populated by the same peoples that have lived there for millennia. There was no mass ethnic cleansing as took place in the Americas/Australia/etc. > Isn't this as Sino-centric as the…

I regret investing my time in trying to understand you when you don't even bother to know what you are saying. Apparently all you have to say is, 'China is better than the West'. Just post that; the rest is BS. There's much more we can do in the world, but not through ignorance and outrage. You can see right here that we can learn nothing from it, gain no ground.

I have no idea what you are trying to argue at this point. It appears I succinctly addressed all your points and you have no rebuttle except ad hominem.

Re: Timeline of the Human Condition

#120
post #74

I wrote a shorter version and enlisted scientific illustrators to draw some pictures: https://impacts.to/downloads/lowres/impacts.pdf Here are the sources used to craft the book: https://impacts.to/bibliography.pdf

> Choices Burning fossil fuels has put life on Earth in peril; our children face an immense carbon dioxide cleanup, devastating climate changes, or both. We can curtail the most catastrophic outcomes, but time to do so grows alarmingly brief. If we choose air conditioner and refrigerator coolants based on hydrocarbon refrigerants; if we urge politicians to invest in on-shore wind turbines; if we reduce food waste; if…

Yup. Another issue is that there are still many things we cannot do with electricity alone, for example steel production, which accounts for 7-9% of CO2 emissions.
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