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Never update anything

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Re: Never update anything

#91

Post by deeblering4 »

endymi0n wrote: post #26
mwaitjmp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having two of everything is actually a pretty decent idea. Part of the fear of updating though is the time sink. Even if I attempt to update one mac laptop to the new version (of which I believe there is a new one just released, doesn’t seem long since I last updated…) knowing that I have a safe backup, I dread the thought of spending hours knowing something _should_ be working but is now broken. It can be infuriatin…

Having two servers with an unpatched CVE 10/10 vuln will get both pwned in short to no time. Or just one, exposing your data in a ransom attack. Dependency and update management is hard. Welcome to IT. From my experience, extreme viewpoints and religions are convenient in the way they have answers to all hard questions in life that are simple, clear and wrong. If you like simple and correct answers, you're usually be…

Unpatched? Not necessarily.

Unpatched and unmitigated? Yes.

Taking the time to build “defense in depth” into the architecture has saved my ass on many occasions.

Re: Never update anything

#92

Post by skybrian »

"Java over Go" seems kind of weird. Go has been around for a decade and it seems like code built on 1.0 should still work, if you're not too crazy about dependencies?

Re: Never update anything

#93

Post by dtoznayxvf »

titzer wrote: post #36
dtoznayxvf wrote: post #9

If the software you are using auto-updates and you lose business or esteem of peers -- it's YOUR fault. Allowing most software companies to update anything on an running functioning work-related machine that you use to make $$, is ASKING FOR IT. WHEN it breaks something that is your fault for being so stupid. I update software in most cases by installing it on another machine/device and then once it is confirmed to w…

> WHEN it breaks something that is your fault for being so stupid. Sorry, this one raises my hackles. It's exactly such a user-hostile worldview that makes everything suck. It's just more victim-blaming and elitist tongue clicking that helps absolutely no one. Everyone is stupid when it comes to software. There are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of lines of code, written by tens of thousands of different peop…

But do we even disagree my friend?

Re: Never update anything

#94

Post by habeebtc »

Timely. I was recently force upgraded to Win11. Today in fact.

Last week I force-downgraded after I got an exception because it is my busy time of year. That exception was not respected and I realized fighting it weekly would be the same time investment as fixing compatibility issues.

"What compatibility issues? Win11 is fine, I have had no problems." My coworkers say.

Well on Day 1, 2 pretty important pieces of software crashed and exited on first run. And then the screen snipping tool failed to take a snapshot and helpfully suggested I reinstall the OS.

I actually really like the MSFT stack, but I know enough to avoid any totally new release for a while. I actually feel confident enough that I no longer try and skip major releases (like I skipped Vista, 8).

Re: Never update anything

#95

Post by bawolff »

> Here's a fair warning: this article is reductio ad absurdum, therefore you shouldn't take it as gospel.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure the author doesn't know what that phrase means.

Re: Never update anything

#96

Post by thrower123 »

muttantt wrote: post #43

I run a very successful SaaS on Angular 1.8. No need for shiny Angular v659, or React, or Svelte, Vue, whatever. Angular 1.x, Python, and Flask is all you need to build a business with 7 figure ARR.

I think I'm on 1.4.something

It works, I'm not all that impressed with Angular 47 or whatever they are up to now, nor React, and, to repeat myself, it works.

When you have tens and hundreds of thousands of lines of code and a only handful of people, it ain't worth it to rewrite everything to make it just work the same and look the same.

Re: Never update anything

#97

Post by mikewhy »

htpn38 wrote: post #88

Hah... I was bored and decided to just press the update button on all of my dependencies. I spend 2 hours changing things pointlessly and then deleted the branch and read why any of these updates were necessary. React Router - "wow, we have an amazing new v6"... *reads the "why upgrade"... "it has hooks now", ok they are already in the version I am using (5.2). "it has some changes to how you specify routes and you w…

IIRC there has never been a date picker in mui, it was in a separate package called pickers, and the recent major version moved it to their labs package.

React Router, however, feels like the one major React package that constantly breaks things on major versions and requires refactoring to get back to where you were.

Re: Never update anything

#98

Post by abraxas »

"When your company won't be the first to market, because about 20% of your total development capacity needs to spent on keeping up"

In the world of JS and Typescript this ratio looks more like 80%. I swear that node hipsters at my last job spent four out of five of their working days wrangling with dependencies or their transpilers, linters, packagers, bundlers and whatever the hell else needs to happen to actually make a node program run. Meanwhile the geezers that worked on Java services reliably pushed new versions of their code sprint after sprint, no heroics, no drama required. What the fuck happened to those "modern stacks" that babysitting them takes the vast majority of developers time? It's a nightmare.

Re: Never update anything

#99

Post by thrower123 »

nameisname wrote: post #20
SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need semantic versioning for that. "Oh, this was introduced in build 22456" works just as well.

Except that using a build number in the way you're describing is just a worse semantic version. You now have no way to indicate if your changes are breaking. Separation of your pipelines also just got a lot more hectic because you could have a situation where you don't know what happened when you're missing "versions" (builds) because it's failing but still incrementing... Using build numbers for versioning doesn't r…

Your build number tags the source control commit it was built from in any reasonably sanely implemented CI/CD system.

Re: Never update anything

#100

Post by virtue3 »

ekianjo wrote: post #87
Negitivefrags wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you must be 100% perfect all the time and are never allowed to make any mistakes. This is one of the attitudes that makes the internet so toxic IMHO.

on the individual level you can make mistakes. on an organizational level allowing this kind of mistakes means they discussed it and nobody found a problem with it. its a sign of disfunction.

It's a sign of docker desperately trying to find out a way to make money and survive.
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