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Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

strongtowns.org

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Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#521
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression Americans buy these huge houses that they then barely use any of most of the time. And a dense neighbourhood can substitute for many rooms - I have a community hall around the corner if I want to host a party, I don't have a home gym/cinema/pool/sauna but I have those things a ten minute bike ride away....

Sure, 1bdrm apartment is more than enough when you live alone and don't have any hobbies aside of hosting parties.

I have plenty of hobbies thank you very much, I just don't find taking up a bunch of space for stuff I do occasionally to be a good tradeoff compared to living somewhere dense and walkable. Honestly, most of the things you listed sound like exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about - how much time did you actually spend last month doing woodworking, skiing, hockey, and piano? How often were your guest rooms occupied? How many of the seasonal clothes you store actually see the light of day again?

There are definitely downsides to having to cycle to a nearby music practice room or workshop space (I happen to live next to the community farm), or putting guests in the hotel round the corner rather than hosting them myself. But there are also upsides to doing these things as part of an actual community rather than in isolation (half the fun of making music is the social side, and at least some of the fun of cycling too). And plenty of other hobbies (team sports, theatre, ...) outright require living somewhere with enough other people around to make them doable.

Obviously the ideal would be to have a huge amount of personal living space and also a huge range of neighbours and facilities within walking/cycling distance. But given the inherent contradiction in that, I'm very glad to choose density (and while those who want the suburban lifestyle are welcome to pursue it in their own spaces, they shouldn't feel entitled to impose car traffic on the city; you can pay for your road use, pay for your parking, give way to pedestrians, follow speed limits, and carry strict liability for any injuries).

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with NJB is that he completely ignores important fact: there are many people that don't want to live in apartments or even close to other people. Surprise surprise, we really want to live on 10 acres of land in our 3500 sqft house, with our motorcycles, garage workshops, dogs et cetera. We don't need "sense of community", we just want to have quiet space for ourselves.

I think you're touching on really common mistake a lot of new urbanists make, and the linked article generally is about. The problem is there's a lot of demand for dense neighborhoods but not enough supply -- not that suburbs and rural developments are objectively bad or that nobody actually prefers them. In many cases certain interests, hobbies, preferences and lifestyles are completely incompatible with the dense d…

There are people who actually like the suburbs? It's the worst of all worlds.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that increase in supply alone doesn't automatically lead to less domination. For instance increasing the supply of high quality affordable housing by 2% in a place where there is high demand might not mean 2% more people will get the houses at a good price. It can mean instead that investors buy 2% more houses in that area to rent it at a price aligned with the market value. Wouldn't it be ok then if the…

I mean that's a weird way to describe Tokyo but it does work. Your last point still stands though & I'm not sure where the tipping point is.

Does Tokyo have much affordable housing ?

It's a very special situation on its own, but buying a house will usually get you into the 30+ years mortgage plans, and old buildings are earthquake hazards so I wouldn't call them high quality. Rents haven't much fallen even as inflation grew, and cheap places like Leopalaces are a hell to live in. All in all it looks to me to be a hard to live town if you're not in a decently good paying job.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're touching on really common mistake a lot of new urbanists make, and the linked article generally is about. The problem is there's a lot of demand for dense neighborhoods but not enough supply -- not that suburbs and rural developments are objectively bad or that nobody actually prefers them. In many cases certain interests, hobbies, preferences and lifestyles are completely incompatible with the dense d…

There are people who actually like the suburbs? It's the worst of all worlds.

Well, I do like to live in my suburban house. At least I like it more than living in apartments in "dense neighbourhood", where I grew up. I have parks, playgrounds, a grocery store, school for my kids, convenience stores, fast food places, a pet store, a booze store, even two cannabis dispensaries in 600m radius. I have a huge tech park with tons of jobs in 10 minutes of cycling. I'm happy here. Why would I need to move anywhere? For what?

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#525
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The role of investors in the economy is ultimately to finance new development. ===> False. The role of investors is to make money. No. The market pays investors if they managed to allocate capital well, and takes away their money if they happened to misallocate it. The investors take on a risk of loosing their money if their investment goes bad. This is how capitalism is so successful. Investors who make good decis…

"and leads to increased pricing. " ==> I can see the effects efficient capital allocation and no limits on properties owned had on the price of properties in the past 20 years. Don't take this the wrong way mate but this is exactly the sort of mentality that led to this situation in the first place. Keep in mind this comes from someone that owns 8 fully paid off flats (going 9 next year) and a good sized house(enough…

I see.

I am a part of the young demographic you're talking about, so I have experienced the (compared to my parent's time) inflated prices first hand. I only own one investment property (in a large city) so far and it's mostly debt.

If you scroll down a little bit you'll see that in another comment I have written that I think the high prices of today are caused mostly by the influx of young people into cities. It is for the most part simply a case of having too many people wanting to live in a limited geographic area. In particular, they want amenities and jobs which tend to be concentrated in big cities.

The only way out is to either build more (with much higher density) increasing the capacity of existing cities or to revitalize small towns as hubs for remote workers with all the amenities they want. As it stands right now, even with remote work on the rise, myself included (I have a fully remote job yet I choose to live in an expensive city), not too many people my age would want to live in a small town their parents or grandparents may have happily lived their whole lives in.

The reason I believe that is the case is that rents are expensive too. Speculation may affect property prices, but it does not lead to increased rent prices. That is barring a few extremes where people buy housing for investment and don't rent it out or live there, which fortunately doesn't seem to be too common -- just take a walk outside in the evening and you'll get a good idea of how many houses/apartments are lived in. In general property tax is designed to prevent this.

Bad policies like rent control may lead to inflated rents (cheap rents for original residents only mean much higher rents for everyone else), but you do see high rents even in cities without such bad policies.

As a landlord, I charge market rent. I'm happy to lower it if I have trouble finding a tenant, as even an absurdly low amount is much better for me than having the property be empty -- I have a mortgage to pay. So far I haven't had to. In fact, the current tenant offered to pay me more rent than what I had originally listed the property for in exchange for me making some minor improvements to the property! I was more than happy to oblige.

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There's one more factor making the situation look worse than it is -- low interest rates. People often calculate how many average annual salaries it takes to buy a place and compare that with the past, but I believe that is not the right metric to look at.

The right metric to look at should be yearly interest as a percentage of one's annual salary. In theory, if the interest rate is cut in half (i.e. from 2% to 1%) you'd expect home prices to effectively double since one can pay the same amount of interest to own a place twice as expensive.

This doesn't quite happen in reality, because when home prices rise, even when accompanied by lower interest rates, a mortgage usually requires a down payment which does scale linearly with the house price along with the principal you are required to pay every month.

You'd be right to point out that this does disproportionately affect younger and less wealthy people, since the more wealth you have, the less you have to rely on traditional mortgages -- you could borrow against your stock portfolio for example, and only pay interest, in which case the interest rate being cut in half indeed does let you own twice as much house with the same cash flow. Of course, you do need to be prepared to weather the storm that may come should the interest rate start rising again, which is precisely why it would be too risky for banks to let the average Joe do something like that -> hence a down payment and monthly principal repayment is required for most mortgages.

I'm not sure what's the best way of solving this. Ideally, your average young person should be able to buy twice the house when the interest rate is halved, but they do need to be shielded from the risk of the interest rate suddenly going up somehow. The government stepping in as a guarantor would likely lead to moral hazard deforming the market which I'm not a fan of. I'm of the opinion that interest rates are mostly determined by the broader market and large secular trends like demographics and technological advancement, as opposed to central bankers, so I don't think this can be solved by attempting to manipulate the interest rate either.

Overall I think the first problem of housing scarcity which is reflected in rent prices is a much bigger issue and solving that would help lessen the effects of the second one.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with NJB is that he completely ignores important fact: there are many people that don't want to live in apartments or even close to other people. Surprise surprise, we really want to live on 10 acres of land in our 3500 sqft house, with our motorcycles, garage workshops, dogs et cetera. We don't need "sense of community", we just want to have quiet space for ourselves.

I think you're touching on really common mistake a lot of new urbanists make, and the linked article generally is about. The problem is there's a lot of demand for dense neighborhoods but not enough supply -- not that suburbs and rural developments are objectively bad or that nobody actually prefers them. In many cases certain interests, hobbies, preferences and lifestyles are completely incompatible with the dense d…

> a lot of us interpret criticism of car-driving and suburban living as a heavy-handed attack on our way of life rather than as a reasonable argument for having affordable options for both lifestyles

It's just folks punching up. The vast majority of the US is zoned for the car. It's really difficult to find a place that allows a car-free or even a low-car lifestyle. People would react a lot differently if there actually were multiple cities that allowed these lifestyles.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a smaller city called Västerås in Sweden and although you will always find problems if you look hard enough. Don’t compare Europe vs US. Compare cities instead and see what they do differently. In Västerås i lived in the rural outskirts when I was younger and missing the 2am bus meant I had to wait until 6am but I think it only happened once to me. I also lived in Houston, Texas. I never took the bus becaus…

How far could you have walked in the four hours instead of waiting? In case of good weather, no rain, or snowstorm, or such?

It would have taken a little over an hour to walk home and I would have had walking/biking paths and sidewalks most of the way. Close to where I live I would have had to walk on the side of the road but it was very low traffic

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure there'd be much to write about to be honest. There are a lot of resources and Facebook groups but we all basically use the same exact process. What are you curious about?

I suppose I am more curious about getting on in Dutch society, making friends, etc. I worry we'd have a hard time finding friends, especially since we're in our 30's and have two young kids, but then again I messaged NotJustBikes and he mentioned they moved with kids older than our own and they've gotten on fine.

I think as long as you make an effort you'd do great :)

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#529
post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then I'd have to buy a car and drive it to get simple basic tasks done.

That's kind of the whole point. People want that.

Is that why real estate in dense, walkable cities/neighborhoods is the most expensive in the country?

No one is saying get rid of suburbs. They’ll always be in the US. But when 95%+ of zoning laws make it so suburban sprawl is the _only_ thing that can get built, then you’re taking a choice away from the people who want to live in cities.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#530
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging from the subsequent posts nobody took it as a flamewar, but as an announced provocative answer aimed at exposing the hyperbole contained in the message I was replying to.

The problem is that in the general case it would with high likelihood lead to a flamewar. Dropping a lit match in a dry forest is a bad idea even when that particular match doesn't happen to catch fire.

> Dropping a lit match in a dry forest is a bad idea

I'm sure you studied this metaphors a lot over the years, but that wasn't a match in a dry forest, it was the image of a match in a dry forest with the label "this is not how you should do it"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images

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