Our self imposed scarcity of nice places • Hacker News Board

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#361

Post by Quanttek » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #349

542354234235 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So any characterization of USA vs Europe positing Europe as some sort of walkable-heaven is really just idealized bullshit. Or that is just a strawman of what is clearly true, but not literally universal in every single individual location. Biking/walking is utilized at least twice as much in Western European countries as in the US, and often 3 times or more [1]. European cities are, in general , more walkable and…

>Biking/walking is utilized at least twice as much in Western European countries as in the US, What's it look like when you include eastern Europe in that comparison? I'm sure the rich half of the US bikes a heck of a lot more than the poor half too.

It's likely the other way around: most Soviet block cities have not only historic centers equally centered around walking/biking but Soviet city design focused strongly on public transport and walkable neighborhoods because cars were unaffordable to most people.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#362

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

circlefavshape wrote: post #225

GingerMidas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the change in weather not upset you? LA's winters are mild at worst, I think that'd be the biggest hurdle for me.

Winter in Ireland are wet and dark, but they're not actually all that cold compared to anywhere in the northern US

That sounds pretty nice. I hate unfiltered sun.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#363

Post by ip26 » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

spodek wrote: post #226

The article applies to farmers markets too. By any measure, farmers markets are better than supermarkets and takeout. Cheaper, faster, more convenient (if there's one nearby), more friendly, cleaner, healthier, but talk about their benefits and prepare to be called privileged and lectured on single moms in food deserts who only have time for McDonald's. Do they think people at farmers markets want to wall them off an…

I love the idea, and I'd never push for fewer farmer's markets, but I must say I've always found them more expensive, slower, and less convenient with hardly any selection. I often wind up heading to the supermarket immediately after, because I need another ingredient to cook what I've just bought.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#364

Post by DennisP » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

null_object wrote: post #101

fsloth wrote: post #8

Fantastic cultural divide. This is one of the reasons why I read HN. Most of Europe is more or less walkable - one reason is that the largest urban centers predate cars, but intentional design AF (anno ford) is also a factor. I can bike or walk everywhere, and the only reason I have a car is that it makes grocery shopping much, much easier. I am not very green or anything, I just like to keep things simple. You can c…

Walkability isn't uniform across Europe, Scandinavia or even within a single country: other people have mentioned Stockholm - which is still a walkable town, even though car-traffic is prioritized over cycles and pedestrians[0] - but other towns in Sweden are definitely not modelled for pedestrians. Nyköping is a town I need to visit regularly, and there pretty much all of the grocery and larger stores have been plac…

I haven't been to Sweden but I lived in Germany for three years and never felt the need for a car. Partly it's walkability, partly it's great public transport. I toured a lot of Europe by train and bus and trolley, and could get anywhere I wanted as long as I was willing to walk a mile or two.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#365

Post by marcosdumay » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #255

CalRobert wrote: post #21

The planet boils because Americans are afraid of living in places as beautiful as the ones they vacation in. If you're an American who'd like to escape, check out the Dutch American Friendship Treaty, or Portugal's new visa for remote work. PT's NHR tax program makes it very popular for FIRE too. It's not Amsterdam but moving to Dublin from LA did wonders for my happiness. The next goal is living somewhere my kid can…

China and India emit far more CO2 than we do.

China yes, India no.

Also, "far" isn't a description you should use. The China emissions relate to the US about the same way the US emissions relate to the entire EU.

Besides, any comparison that does not take the population into account is dishonest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#366

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #308

CalRobert wrote: post #21

The planet boils because Americans are afraid of living in places as beautiful as the ones they vacation in. If you're an American who'd like to escape, check out the Dutch American Friendship Treaty, or Portugal's new visa for remote work. PT's NHR tax program makes it very popular for FIRE too. It's not Amsterdam but moving to Dublin from LA did wonders for my happiness. The next goal is living somewhere my kid can…

LA != America. I've lived in cities and rural mountains. I loved the walk-ability of Boston with really good public transport.However, most cities have awful public transport. Additionally, I can afford to live in/near a city. A lot of people can't and drive because they can get 2x the space with a yard for kids to plan in for less than a 1BR in the city. They get an awful commute in the bargain but I don't think it…

> A lot of people can't and drive because they can get 2x the space with a yard for kids to plan in for less than a 1BR in the city.

Until this year, this was true all over. Now, it's radically different. Homes go to all-cash buyers paying over list price. Scarce rentals get hundreds of applicants each.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#367

Post by CapitainEvident » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #347

CapitainEvident wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bought from own savings and income 4 years ago with no help from parents, not a family-owned apartment or sizeable inheritance. Owner is an immigrant from a developing country, the exchange rate alone would be prohibitive for any family assistance.

>Bought from own savings and income 4 years ago IIRC the housing market in the Netherlands 4 years ago was way more accessible than the madness of today so that's probably not a surprise that he could afford it. Ask him if he could have bought in the market of today please.

Still affordable in today’s market. This shouldn’t even be up to discussion as anyone can check the available houses for sale in Amsterdam and what they sold for.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#368

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

nend wrote: post #321

CalRobert wrote: post #21

The planet boils because Americans are afraid of living in places as beautiful as the ones they vacation in. If you're an American who'd like to escape, check out the Dutch American Friendship Treaty, or Portugal's new visa for remote work. PT's NHR tax program makes it very popular for FIRE too. It's not Amsterdam but moving to Dublin from LA did wonders for my happiness. The next goal is living somewhere my kid can…

What an odd comment. You don't need to move out of the US in order to reduce how much you drive, or live somewhere your kids can walk to school (source: me). Expecting people to make such a drastic change for fairly minor lifestyle changes isn't realistic. Also, I don't think it's fear that prevents Americans from moving across the world. I think it's more related to, they don't want to leave their family, friends, a…

> I don't think it's fear that prevents Americans from moving across the world. I think it's more related to, they don't want to leave their family, friends, and life they've been building

You aren't wrong but it only applies to the minority who could afford the expense of an overseas move.

Moving across town routinely costs the equivalent of 2-6 mos rent and most Americans would struggle to manage that.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#369

Post by iammisc » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #8

Fantastic cultural divide. This is one of the reasons why I read HN. Most of Europe is more or less walkable - one reason is that the largest urban centers predate cars, but intentional design AF (anno ford) is also a factor. I can bike or walk everywhere, and the only reason I have a car is that it makes grocery shopping much, much easier. I am not very green or anything, I just like to keep things simple. You can c…

This will be solved in the United States, the moment our cities have proper policing. Finland is a lot safer than the united states. Unfortunately, enough of my fellow Americans are dead set on preventing proper safety protocols from being implemented. Thus cities will forever be seen as dangerous, and not wholly incorrectly.

Look, I live in a neighborhood like the one described here and constantly sing its praises. I love walking, and biking everywhere. Love knowing my neighbors. Love having beautiful outdoor spaces. However, when other parents in the neighborhood recount how they've been in random shootouts, have to deal with deranged vagrants exposing themselves to their daughters, etc... no amount of car-free lifestyle or beautiful tree-lined streets is going to overcome those fears.

If strong towns truly wanted to bring about an urban American revival (And I think they do), the first thing they'd support is properly funding, training, and equipping the police. There has been talk in my well-to-do beautiful slice of Portland of hiring our own police force. This is the fundamental cultural gulf between city dwellers and suburbanites. Where my parents live in the suburbs, there is no issue of funding our police. No large group comes out to destroy property when the issue of public safety is brought up. My parents (who are the epitome of American when it comes to home choice) always tell me they love where I live, and would love to live there... but there's not enough police. And frankly, at the present moment, they are right. There are no shootouts where they live. I myself have considered moving. A friend of ours just had to duck under a car with their 2 year old because we defunded our gun violence reduction team.

Re: Our self imposed scarcity of nice places

#370

Post by yencabulator » Thu, Nov 04, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #207

fsloth wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"any characterization of USA vs Europe positing Europe as some sort of walkable-heaven is really just idealized bullshit" Ouch, a bit harsh, that. I did not intend to claim Europe does not have unwalkable areas, but that walkable areas are not considered as such novelties. I should have used a more cautious tone. Never the less, using Helsinki as an example, you can plan to purchase an apartment within one hours of c…

Yes, Helsinki. A capital city. Which is where most of these comparisons end. In most European countries, people have trouble even affording a place close to a larger or capital city unless they inherited money or already live there, at which point the quality of transport rapidly diminishes (same goes for a place in that city with good connections). That includes young professionals working in tech. When you have to…

The smaller cities in Finland tend to have dedicated bike/pedestrian paths separated from roads, with almost every school age child bicycling or walking to school.

The only way I can understand someone complaining about the lack of such options in Northern Europe is that they haven't lived elsewhere, and seen how bad it could be.

My favorite personal US-is-for-cars anecdote: We once got into cars just to drive across the road, as there was no pedestrian crossing and six lanes of traffic.