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Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

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Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#41

Post by XorNot »

EGreg wrote: post #27
fsflover wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Signal is a walled garden actively fighting against alternative clients and servers. This is enough for me to avoid it and recommend Matrix. If you feel that those issues are critical, please donate your money or time to solve them.

In terms of closed centralized services, I’d say Telegram is my top pick, followed by Signal. But I would take open source decentralized networks over them anyday, and my favorite is Freenet, or the much newer network, MaidSAFE because it is the most secure thing I have ever seen (but that’s not mainstream yet).

Telegram is not encrypted E2E by default at all.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#42

Post by BeatLeJuce »

m-p-3 wrote: post #34
fsflover wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Signal is a walled garden actively fighting against alternative clients and servers. This is enough for me to avoid it and recommend Matrix. If you feel that those issues are critical, please donate your money or time to solve them.

And Signal forces you to use your phone number as your identifier, which can be traced relatively easily to a person or at least a geographical position by the authorities. The content of the message might be encrypted, but metadata can provide valuable intelligence insights. At least Matrix can be used mostly anonymously through a user-generated identifier, without an email address or phone number, and can be used t…

I recently changed my mind on this: being able to use phone numbers as identifiers also has some benefits: Last time I was on vacation, it was easy to get in touch with service providers (e.g. surf school, massage place) via WhatsApp, simply because I had their number, and everyone used WhatsApp anyways. If Signal would be more popular, I could instead contact them directly via Signal, since I only need their phone number. It allows for a more seamless transition.

Matrix OTOH would have a harder time getting adopted: businesses would need to update their websites, facebook pages and flyers to add the matrix contact info. Which they wouldn't do until Matrix is more popular. Which is a chicken and egg problem.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#43

Post by xbdm »

I recommend a secure home server, People home servers something are not reliable or secure. Got to find a home server to use and sign up to. I would recommend using kde.org, As it is 100% reliable and secure. Others may very.

Use as much open source applications as possible, And if you want to. Do not force anyone to use them, Just be smart in providing your information.

I use:

Matrix - It's end to end encrypted but some groups i am in, The owners have it disabled for some reason. Keybase - Keybase was sold, But still end to end encrypted. Plus i was using it before they got sold so. Telegram - Telegram is not end to end encrypted by default, Unless you enable secret chats.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#44

Post by Maakuth »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #22
southerntofu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So seems that they probably won't have issues with that it might harm Matrix, as they are a direct competitor. I was not aware of the Grid project, but they seem to make good points. Matrix is developed by a restricted group of people with a startup vibe and some cringy/questionable actions: - spitting on other protocols (or not even acknowledging their existence) without a technical reasoning (Matrix could have be…

The Jitsi thing is going away, matrix already has its own video chat for 1:1 chats, and it's coming for rooms soon too. The Jitsi option was a temporary setup. The clean rooms approach is a good thing I think. Xmpp is becoming a pileup of different add-ons and suffers from the same issues you mention for matrix (not all features supported by all clients). Probably in a worse way. I know the reluctance of IRC operator…

> A user joining a bridged matrix room can see the entire history from before they joined.

This is not the case, Matrix rooms can be set to allow viewing history only from joining time on. And that is how IRC bridge rooms are mostly configured, indeed based on policies from the bridged IRC networks.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#45

Post by nani8ot »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #10
thepangolino wrote: post #4

And meanwhile people keep on ignoring Tox when not sh*ting on it.

Hadn't heard of it before. It looks really good, any particular reason people shit on it?

It does not support iOS, which limits it's uses.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#46

Post by ranger_danger »

xbdm wrote: post #43

I recommend a secure home server, People home servers something are not reliable or secure. Got to find a home server to use and sign up to. I would recommend using kde.org, As it is 100% reliable and secure. Others may very. Use as much open source applications as possible, And if you want to. Do not force anyone to use them, Just be smart in providing your information. I use: Matrix - It's end to end encrypted but…

There's no such thing as 100% reliable and secure.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#47

Post by novocaine »

southerntofu wrote: post #19
capableweb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, with that in mind: Kudos for such an analysis, but be mindful that such a lengthy document that discusses minor issues can actually harm the matrix project. Under "Purpose and Scope": > This document is a research paper by Libre Monde ASBL, nonprofit dedicated to protecting people's privacy. We had the need to document privacy points for The Grid Protocol project, fork of the Matrix protocol. So seems that they…

> So seems that they probably won't have issues with that it might harm Matrix, as they are a direct competitor. I was not aware of the Grid project, but they seem to make good points. Matrix is developed by a restricted group of people with a startup vibe and some cringy/questionable actions: - spitting on other protocols (or not even acknowledging their existence) without a technical reasoning (Matrix could have be…

> putting all of their $$$$ into a single web client with very bad performance, not caring for other platforms;

hrm, maybe this was true a few years ago?

Element currently develops two web clients. Element Web: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/element and Hydrogen: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/hydrogen

Element also sponsors development of at least one other community web client that I know of.

Meanwhile, you can find Element's Android client here: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/element-android

And the iOS client here: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/element-ios

Within Element, new features are developed in cross-functional teams and released in tandem; e.g. Spaces was released on web and mobile at the same time.

On performance - there are definitely some performance issues with matrix clients in general, particularly larger rooms and accounts which are in many rooms. This is an active focus of development, e.g. see work on sync v3, a more efficient matrix sync protocol https://github.com/matrix-org/sync-v3

Disclaimer: I am an Element employee

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#48

Post by ranger_danger »

southerntofu wrote: post #15
geraltofrivia wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you could. How many people do? I don't. I could. But that doesn't solve my problem with Tox. I use IM apps to keep in touch with people in my social circle. I've been coercing a lot of my close friends to switch to Matrix (I use the word "element" because they're not tech savy and I don't want them to be too off-put), and some of them actually do. If Tox does not have an app on iOS store, that, as of now, makes…

> If Tox does not have an app on iOS store, that, as of now, makes it impossible for me to suggest it to approx. 60% of my friends If iOS does not allow 3rd party programs on "their" phones (or GPL'ed software on their "store"), that, as of now, makes it impossible for me to suggest it to 100% of my friends. It's easy to shift the blame on volunteer developers when you have a multi-billion corporation making their li…

Sounds like the bigger issue is your friends do not care about privacy.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#49

Post by bilkow »

BeatLeJuce wrote: post #42
m-p-3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Signal forces you to use your phone number as your identifier, which can be traced relatively easily to a person or at least a geographical position by the authorities. The content of the message might be encrypted, but metadata can provide valuable intelligence insights. At least Matrix can be used mostly anonymously through a user-generated identifier, without an email address or phone number, and can be used t…

I recently changed my mind on this: being able to use phone numbers as identifiers also has some benefits: Last time I was on vacation, it was easy to get in touch with service providers (e.g. surf school, massage place) via WhatsApp, simply because I had their number, and everyone used WhatsApp anyways. If Signal would be more popular, I could instead contact them directly via Signal, since I only need their phone n…

Although optional, matrix actually has identity servers, which allow people to find you via phone number / email.

Re: Notes on privacy and data collection of Matrix.org (2019)

#50

Post by snvzz »

aero-glide2 wrote: post #37
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hadn't heard of it before. It looks really good, any particular reason people shit on it?

Both have to be online to transmit messages. As there is no server.

With grease around that. Clients will buffer offline messages, and send them when the other end is online.

More or less how skype used to work, before it got bought by Microsoft and centralized.

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