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New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

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Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#51

Post by chmod775 »

chriswarbo wrote: post #19
chmod775 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better definition then would be: Assuming each dimension is infinite, how many dimensions do you need to uniquely address a bit. The infinite requirement is there so the answer can't be reduced to "1 dimension" every time (if you had a 10x10 matrix you could just turn it into an array of 100 elements).

Slight nit-pick, but any number of dimensions can be reduced to one, using a pairing function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pairing_function or a space-filling curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-filling_curve

Right. I don't immediately see how either of those would work for uncountable infinite sets, but it may be possible.

Clearly some other limitations are required to make "dimensions" a useful metric in this context.

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#53

Post by handrous »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #6
mattowen_uk wrote: post #2

This is all well-and-good, but how do we read all that data in 500 years time, or even 20 years time? People were busily archiving data to CDs and DVDs two decades ago, thinking 'yeah this digital storage media will last for centuries!'... Loads of bit-rot combined with complete lack of DVD drives still in common [computer] usage, has totally shown that the more complex the storage media the shorter it's useful lifet…

There's no lack of DVD drives, they are widely available on Amazon, BestBuy, eBay.

They're also pretty cheap ($15-30), powered fully over USB—no extra power cable like in the old days—and they're tiny.

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#54

Post by chmod775 »

clairity wrote: post #43
chmod775 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better definition then would be: Assuming each dimension is infinite, how many dimensions do you need to uniquely address a bit. The infinite requirement is there so the answer can't be reduced to "1 dimension" every time (if you had a 10x10 matrix you could just turn it into an array of 100 elements).

what you're dancing around is linear independence, which is the idea that two functions can't be described as a function of each other, which also means they can be used to specify every other function in the intervening function space. the least number of linearly independent coordinate functions (usually transformed down to unit vectors) is the dimensionality of the system. note that you can have linearly dependent…

> what you're dancing around is linear independence

Thanks! That was a "ohhhhhh of course!" moment for me.

At least that's more succinct and I don't see a way to cheat it.

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#55

Post by mixmastamyk »

tiffanyh wrote: post #38

Off topic: if I wanted to digital store files to pass down to my children that might not be access for decades , what's the best medium to store such data? Floppy/ZipDrive/CD-ROM/Blueray/USB-A are either obsolete or are on their way out. What's a future proof storage option? (and if you said Cloud Storage {X} - just look at how many services have folded in just the last few years alone). Secondly, what's the best fil…

No such thing. Other poster had a good idea, duplicate everything every ten years. I suspect flash drives will have the best longevity in the medium term however.

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#56

Post by Hamuko »

ksec wrote: post #25
MisterTea wrote: post #3

The other day I was talking with a friend about the high cost and perceived fragility of tape drives for long term personal archival while bemoaning the loss of higher density optical storage technology. It's not easy to backup or shuffle around terabytes of personal video, audio and pictures. Hard drives aren't exactly the right media for safe deposit boxes. In the 90's I had an Iomega Ditto 250MB drive that held 12…

I have been talking and asking about this for years. And was told about Archival Disc [1] on HN. 500GB per disc right now, and only came out in 2019. 1TB per disc in the future but I suspect not in the next two years. I wish they have a more consumer, or prosumer friendly version though. The current drive goes for about $9K [2] There are Archival BluRay disc that offer 50 + year storage, but they are only in ~50GB pe…

I have very little hope for the price for these things to come down to prosumer levels. The best I can hope for is for local libraries to have one available for use (although you need like 8 hours to fill the 5.5 TB maximum and they're so expensive you don't want to lend them out). However, I have very little hope for that as well since most consumers are just told to use the cloud.

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#57

Post by Hamuko »

GhettoComputers wrote: post #50
Hamuko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you actually have "unlimited" storage.

Can you name something that is not "unlimited"? I don't have a limit, I never hit the cap. By that logic nothing is unlimited (texts, calls, data, etc), but realistically it doesn't matter because I don't use it much. I don't care to test it, I use it sparingly and never had a issue with limits.

I assume that my S3 bucket is as close to unlimited as it gets.

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#58

Post by cogman10 »

throwaway946513 wrote: post #8
0des wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget actual rot too. I peered into a stack of CD's not long ago to find that a lot of them have quite literally rotted while sitting in a dark and dry closet. No dust, no humidity, no smoking, no abuse, just a spindle of CD's recognizable only by their sharpie'd identifiers covered in pits of rotted foil.

Temperature? I've yet to experience rot on decades old discs at home. Most sit in a basement that doesn't exceed 68*F

We are mostly talking about burnt discs which achieve their burning via chemical reactions with light. Those disks rot.

Any standard Blu-ray/DVD/CD you have has no rotting as it's simply pressed.

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#59

Post by tomc1985 »

GhettoComputers wrote: post #31
tomc1985 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nooooooooooo, you're supposed to back it up to the cloud and pay some startup jerk $XX/mo for the privilege! [/s]

Says whom? Most cloud storage have huge free tiers. I have unlimited storage on telegram.

So will they intake 10TB?

Re: New 5D Storage to Offer 10,000x the Density of Blu-ray

#60

Post by rbanffy »

kmeisthax wrote: post #37
gjm11 wrote: post #10

In case anyone is wondering what they mean by "5D": they mean it's a 3D array of marks, each of which has both size and orientation. The 3D array is three 2D layers. According to this definition, a DVD or Blu-Ray disc is "4D" because it can have multiple layers each of which stores 1-dimensional data (pit versus no pit). And a book is at least "7D" because it contains a 3D arrangement of marks, and marks can vary in…

Counting size and orientation as extra dimensions would be justifiable if you could overlap dots of different sizes or orientations, even a little.

You still need 5 values to retrieve a single bit of data, even if only two of those numbers have more than 3 bits.
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