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What is the inverse of a vector?

mattferraro.dev

141–150 of 198 posts

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#141

The article begins: >In this post we will re-invent a form of math that is far superior to the one you learned in school. The ideas herein are nothing short of revolutionary. and concludes: > I firmly believe that in 100 years, Geometric Algebra will be the dominant way of introducing students to mathematical physics. In the same way that Newton's notation for Calculus is no longer the dominant one, or that Maxwell's…

If deficiency to tensors and differential forms is a reason not to be taught, then why do we learn about vector notation?

Oh right, because it's a natural language for talking about geometry and mechanics, by far the most common and important type of reasoning that the average student will need to do. And geometric algebra is demonstrably superior for that domain. So your comment is pointless.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#142

The article begins: >In this post we will re-invent a form of math that is far superior to the one you learned in school. The ideas herein are nothing short of revolutionary. and concludes: > I firmly believe that in 100 years, Geometric Algebra will be the dominant way of introducing students to mathematical physics. In the same way that Newton's notation for Calculus is no longer the dominant one, or that Maxwell's…

This may be true in some places, but my undergraduate physics education spent a lot of time on standard Gibbs-style vector calculus. Taylor Classical Mechanics and Griffiths Electrodynamics especially depend on them. Maybe there is a case to be made that first years should start with differential forms, but until that happens I think geometric algebra could be a big improvement.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#143
post #26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just some of the more advanced theory you'd get from studying modules repackaged a bit. Basically the extra stuff that is usually skipped in first year linear algebra courses are the symmetric and asymmetric (often called exterior) products. These form algebras, of course. The exterior product, or wedge product, has a natural interpretation in terms of signed areas (or volumes) and from this you get the determin…

> But no, there is nothing new here beyond marketing. Yes, that's my sense too. Of course cross products, wedge products etc make sense and that's just standard mathematics, but the part that I haven't really seen the point of is to form the algebra where all these forms live side by side. It doesn't seem like a useful "fusing", in the way that say the complex plane is. Of course it's very cool that sub-algebras in 2…

> For a concrete example, one youtuber showed how Maxwells equations simplified to a single equation if you introduce an operator that is a combination of div and curl, and also a new kind of physical entity that combines the electrical and magnetic fields.

Back when I was in university, we covered this in our differential geometry class. And yes, you'd use more abstract concepts like curvature, hodge dual, and exterior product.

Maxwells equations in any dimension can be reduced to: dF = 0 and d*F = 0

That's two equations, not one, but you can introduce a new D = (d, d*) and then get DF=0 if you want.

The advantage here is the d, and F have all the old physical meanings. F is curvature, which is the electro-magnetic field E+B, and d is the derivative (exterior derivative, but that is the derivative needed in calculus).

Here is a derivation: http://home.lu.lv/~sd20008/papers/essays/Maxwell's%20equatio...

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#144

The article begins: >In this post we will re-invent a form of math that is far superior to the one you learned in school. The ideas herein are nothing short of revolutionary. and concludes: > I firmly believe that in 100 years, Geometric Algebra will be the dominant way of introducing students to mathematical physics. In the same way that Newton's notation for Calculus is no longer the dominant one, or that Maxwell's…

>Geometric algebra is, as the article points out, a more powerful version of the usual vector notation That's not just a gross oversimplification, this is also flat out wrong if what you meant was that it only has vectors. It has more general objects called multivectors through pretty much the same process you get one, two, etc. forms from the wedge product. In fact, both GA and differential forms build from the exte…

To put it in concrete terms, where does GA really fit into the story of undergraduate physics (or mathematics)?

Suppose I want to teach first-semester mechanics. I can get through this fine with the usual vector notation. Vectors and dot products are intuitive when taught well (the latter just being projections), and while cross products are a little hairy, they don't play a major role in the course. There's no time for GA, and it would confuse more than illuminate in any case.

Next, I want to teach E&M. Here, I'd probably lead with the usual vector calculus notation (because even if it's ugly, it's standard and students should know it), and then follow with an explanation in terms of differential forms. [I assume this is a more theoretical, or honors, class; I might stick with vector calculus if it's more computational.] So now students know differential forms, they can do everything in a coordinate-free way and on manifolds, and they can access a significant amount of standard physics and mathematics literature.

Having proceeded in this way, what does introducing GA do except suck up a lot of class time? To me, it seems clunky and without any distinctive advantages.

Another question to think about: if this notation system is so good, why don't working mathematicians or physicists actually use it? For example, people thought Feynman diagrams were strange at first, but they proved their value and consequently caught on.

Again, my argument is that this is not some revolutionary esoteric knowledge, it's well-understood stuff that people don't teach for good reasons.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#145

> A scalar is a point on a number line. This is going to confuse readers. A point on a number line is a 1D vector; in other words it is a unit vector pointing along that number line, multiplied by something which scales its length. It’s the latter dimensionless and directionless quantity that’s the scalar.

Nitpicking: a more correct view is that the set of points on a straight line is an affine space, so the points are neither scalars nor vectors, but elements of an affine space. The set of translations of the straight line is a vector space a.k.a. a linear space. So the vectors are the classes of equivalences of the differences between 2 points on the straight line (i.e. the differences between 2 pairs of points, wher…

Thanks for that! It was extremely clear.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#146
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, it’s common to refer to university as school.

Really? I was not aware. Do we know if the author is from the US though?

The author went to MIT, worked for NASA, and now lives in San Francisco https://twitter.com/mferraro89

It is unexceptional (indeed, expected) to get through an American undergraduate science or engineering degree without ever taking an abstract algebra course (much less the 2+ apparently expected of German pure math students).

But in any event, the top post here by Garlef is barking up the wrong tree. Division algebras, field extensions, and galois theory (per se) are not the tools to use for studying arbitrary-dimensional geometry. What you want is Clifford algebra (which Clifford himself, and later Hestenes, call “geometric algebra”) and then geometric calculus, which can be used on arbitrary manifolds, in non-metrical contexts, etc.

Basic geometric algebra should be taught to advanced high school students and all undergraduates studying any technical subject.

Math students looking for a math-style introduction to geometric algebra should try Chisolm (2012) https://arxiv.org/abs/1205.5935

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#147

The article begins: >In this post we will re-invent a form of math that is far superior to the one you learned in school. The ideas herein are nothing short of revolutionary. and concludes: > I firmly believe that in 100 years, Geometric Algebra will be the dominant way of introducing students to mathematical physics. In the same way that Newton's notation for Calculus is no longer the dominant one, or that Maxwell's…

> People know about it and have decided not to teach it

Generally teachers don’t (can’t) individually decide this. Decisions about what to teach have incredible historical inertia, and are largely decided based on what the teacher learned when they themself went to school decades ago, what everyone else is teaching, what materials are easily available, what notations are used in past literature, etc. Substantial transitions in the teaching of existing material take generations.

In 2020 our basic math/science curriculum and pedagogy in high schools and universities has all been pretty well statically fixed for 50+ years (many parts are unchanged in 200+ years), except in computer science where some of the basic ideas are newer than that, and in graduate-level courses that get closer to the cutting edge.

* * *

The place where geometric algebra has seen most rapid adoption is in computer programming, where code actually has to work, and a more effective formalism makes correct code easier to write and reason about, saving a ton of time and effort even for basic examples.

Even in physics, where a better formalism leads to improved physical intuition and deeper conceptual understanding, a transition is an uphill struggle, because symbolic fluency with geometric algebra takes years of practice.

(Some) pure mathematicians on their high horses scoff at anything that doesn’t advance their own obscure abstract research, which is unconcerned with conceptual obstacles faced by undergraduate students, scientists, or engineers. They can hand-wave a better formalism away with “this is isomorphic to X and Y other structures, so there’s no value in it”.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#148
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no, there is nothing new here beyond marketing. Yes, that's my sense too. Of course cross products, wedge products etc make sense and that's just standard mathematics, but the part that I haven't really seen the point of is to form the algebra where all these forms live side by side. It doesn't seem like a useful "fusing", in the way that say the complex plane is. Of course it's very cool that sub-algebras in 2…

Not the same concrete example, but one where I do find the Geometric Algebra version substantially more insightful, is the treatment of rigid body mechanics in the geometric algebra of the Euclidean group (R_{n,0,1}). It has the dual quaternions as even subalgebra (in 3D), and unifies all linear and angular aspects. It leads to remarkable new insights, as removing the need for force-couples (pure angular acceleration…

Well, I think the point is that in rigid body dynamics, the configuration and phase spaces naturally form a manifold and then the equations of motion are in terms of differential forms on the cotangent bundle of the these manifolds. This is commonly expressed in terms of the language of exterior algebras, hodge duals, etc. That's what is driving all of this, and is usually covered in a good class on mathematical physics. Again, there is nothing new here except marketing, but marketing plays an important and useful role.

I remember for a long time, people coming from the math end of things would look down a bit on physicists laboriously working everything out in complex tensor notation when there are these elegant canonical descriptions arising from differential geometry that look very simple and beautiful and are completely coordinate-invariant.

But then when you want to actually calculate something, you end up doing all the painful tensor contractions anyway, so the physicists would likewise often lookdown on the mathematicians for writing these simple one liners that described all of mechanics but not really understanding how to calculate stuff.

So if repackaging some of the basic facts of differential geometry as "Geometric Algebra" gets physicists to be excited about it, then that's a good thing. Just like repackaging some of the laborious tensor calculus computations into differential geometry has gotten a lot of mathematicians excited about physics. It really is much more pleasant to work in a coordinate-free manner using differential structures associated to the natural manifold suggested by the problem, rather than being stuck in euclidean space and needing to deal with lots of fictional forces and complex change of basis formulas.

For example, look at this text: https://depositonce.tu-berlin.de/bitstream/11303/2482/1/Doku...

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#149
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems that this is written out of a perspective of some missing knowledge. Well, the author talks about what "we learned in school ", not university , so that checks out but only because you two have different audiences in mind.

In the US, it’s common to refer to university as school.

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Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As spekcular says, the standard curriculum covers differential forms, tensors and vectors... making geometric algebra a relatively small delta to pick up. Could you be a bit more specific about which "standard curriculum"/"standard approach" you're talking about? For example, in my formal education (high school; masters with physics major, comp. sci. minor; 4 years of a comp. sci. PhD (abandoned)), I did not encoun…

By standard approach I mean the typical material covered for someone studying vector calculus properly. This will be stuff like differential forms and the basics of tensors, manifolds and multilinear maps at the undergrad level. Differential geometry and cohomology are examples of courses which build on them. I agree with you that pseudovectors, cross products and vector calculus are a terribly adhoc way to teach thi…

> for someone studying vector calculus properly

If you can’t invert vectors, you aren’t studying vector calculus properly. ;-)

Differential forms are a half-baked formalism.

Unfortunately I don’t know of any great undergraduate level geometric calculus textbooks. Ideally there would be something like Hubbard & Hubbard’s book (http://matrixeditions.com/5thUnifiedApproach.html) written using GA as a formalism.

Hestenes & Sobczyk’s book (http://geocalc.clas.asu.edu/html/CA_to_GC.html) is a hard slog, and not appropriate for an undergraduate audience.

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